To be so so fed of dealing with bloody poo problems!!!

[Poopypooy]

DD has had problems with soiling for the past 4 years.im so fed up.i came to the conclusion that is a behavioural issue rather ten physical.we have been to the pediatrician,done the movicol etc,no success,actually made things worst.DD is not impacted,just bloody lazy and prefers to hold it in and keep playing/watching to etc rather then go to toilet.tried to enforce a routine,works as long as she does it,but she ll start fighting me about it after a few days and I find it difficult to enforce(especially in the morning as things are rushed and she's always been difficult to wake up in the mornings).cherry on the bloody cake the last couple of years ,she ll slightly soil,and rather then think"that's my clue,off I go to the loo",she ll just stay there and scratch /wipes.with a tissue if she happens to have one,more often stray pieces of clothes or her own hands!! Only good point is lately I got her to then stop wiping hands on bed/wall/whatever is next to her.no SN and she s nearly 8.I could cry,can't see an end on this.Gp is useless

We reward with weekend time on the tablet.
So 10 mins sat on the toilet equals 10 mins of x-box time.

With the hands thing I would do a separate reward thing. Perhaps a marble in a jar for each day/part of day that she doesn't do it. Then when she has a certain number (make it fairly achievable to start with) then she gets a reward. I do this with DS. He won't wear his coat so every time he wears it he gets a marble in the jar. When he gets 7 marbles he gets given a pack of Match Attax cards. Has worked brilliantly so far. Every now and again I make it a bit harder to get the reward. We are due to move to 8 marbles soon....

No advice but just to say you are not alone OP.

I have an 8 yo that does this too . It stops for ages and we forget, then it starts again. She frequently then wipes her hands on the walls/radiator. DH conveniently "doesn't notice" so it's always me wiping up the poo .

FattyFishwife that is really interesting and something I had never considered. DD also has dyspraxia.

Our DS has had poo problems since he was almost four. He is now 8. We have been on Movicol for ages. But, we reduced it to half a sachet a day as we felt he was so 'soft' he wasn't feeling it. BIG mistake. I read the Constipation book - definitely worthwhile, then came across a book called Stool Withholding by Sophia Ferguson. She is a mum whose child also soiled. Not medically trained but found a 'solution'. She said in the book to go to two sachets of Movicol a day straight off. Stay on it even when the problem seems to be clearing. If it doesn't clear go up by half a sachet every three or four days til you reach four a day. The idea is that the poo is so soft it has to come out. Maintain the dose that clears the problem.

So we did. We started five weeks ago. First week we had five soiling incidents (DS had been soiling every day). The following month - zero soiling. A poo five to six times a week on the toilet (we have to set the routine - the bowel is slack so doesn't get a signal yet after years of withholding but that's a small price. DS sits after breakfast, when he gets in from school and just before his bath). He's just started pooing twice a day this past week. He now goes almost as soon as he sits on the toilet whereas the bowel specialist used to say sit for up to 15 minutes each time - DS no longer has to.

The aim is to get a regular 5 poos a week or more. Then keep the dose going. DS will probably be on 2 sachets a day for the next year, then we reduce gradually. If the poos stop, he goes back immediately to two sachets a day and no reduction for a few months.

Sophia Ferguson's son stopped the Movicol after about 6 months as he was much younger (about four I believe) but she kept an eye on him - any sign of not going to poos meant straight back on Movicol. I think she says, in the book, that he went from 5 poos a week to 7 within a couple of months of stopping treatment as his body began to take over the work.

Seriously both books are excellent. The tip is don't rush dropping the Movicol - it does them no harm and helps keep everything soft so it has to come out.

My DS is in the middle of this he has ASD, and has constipation issues since he was weaned. He has been on movicol for years but often refuses to take it. He has never toilet trained and the Dr said it would be pointless while all this is going on.

I have fought hard and managed to see a peadatric gastroentalogist who says DS has a mega colon, this can be really common with children who withhold, the problem is it not only makes to poo easier to withhold, it also messes up the brain bowel signals, it takes along time to create this issue and also takes a long time to fix.

I have no word of wisdom as I am fighting a loosing battle with my DS and his ASD complicates things, but Just wante to wish you luck with sorting it out.

Sounds about right to me OP but I would recommend tewarding the right behaviour rather than punishing the wrong behaviour IYSWIM. So reward for clean hands, rather than punish for dirty hands.

We got this bit wrong at first some time ago and it turned into a battle of wills.... Much better now we changed emphasis.

Also, if you haven't already do look at eric.org.uk, fantastically helpful website IMO.

OP, DC had this for years. I have to point out that DC has mild SN (so mild that it's not obvious). Sensory probs. so here are the reasons why we think she avoided the loo and soiled:

1. very strong sense of smell. She avoided bathroom as much as poss. We put gel air freshners in.
2. hypermobility so hasn't got as much muscle tone to control it
3. she eventually admitted to liking poo on her bum (the feeling of it) So we had to do regular loo sitting (20 mins after mealtimes for 5-10mins) and make sure she has plenty of reading material to distract them on loo. We also had movicol. Am glad to say after a few months of regular loo sitting seems to got over the reluctance of pooing in the loo and we are in a much happier place. Still occasionally get soiled pants but not all the time!!! You have my sypathies btw. I found it a nightmare to deal with.

Thanks for all the advices.at least we r not alone.really don't think movicol is needed,pops are soft and daily.even pants soiling is very little and not every day.could it be just laziness ?im doubting myself now,could she have SN?she is generally very messy,even when eating she will always make a mess and get her clothes dirty.
but is not clumsy ,can climb etc very well so don't think it could be dispraxia.only thing is she can be immature for her age.
had a good day today,after some days of difficult behaviour.
hope that lasts!shes enjoying ticking off things from her chart(morning routine etc).
She does sometimes say she doesn't want to stop what she's doing,or that she doesn't like the toilet,but can't say why.bathrooms are cleaned daily,and no strong smells.
Thanks for the support

As well made her clean up any mess and made clear that's what will happen from now on .

DS says he doesn't like the toilet too, and we've never really sorted out why. He'll use the upstairs one but hates the downstairs one, and also the ones at school.

He does say that he's scared it will hurt, he had a fissure a long time ago and still remembers the pain, poor kid .

He hates taking Movicol (was on it for years and seems able to taste it in even really strong-tasting drinks) and at the moment I suspect he's engaging so well partly because he knows he doesn't have to take it if he's going regularly.

Dd2 is still having problems at 9. Only ever done maybe 4 poos in the loo. We are under bowel clinic and has seen clinical social workers but we are getting nowhere. She hates the movicol and I struggle to get her to take it. Only ever soils at home though.
Worse than that dd3 is 3 and still won't toilet train. Really hope I don'tchave to go through this again.Think both probably have some sensory issues but not enough to be classed as sen.
Going to look up recommened books.

Sympathy to all dealing with this.

northern sympathies to you. We also had poo refusal in loo for years. It really was a very difficult time. Was down to sensory issues.

Thank you