to think this primary school security is lax?

[Woolleymammoth]

Long story short...
Dc primary school, parents encouraged to leave dc from 8.40 once thru school gates. Dc play outside til 8.50 when they are called in (exception of reception who are delivered straight to classroom).

School is large and has 4 gates, 2 on infant side, 2 on junior side.

Kids can get all round the school grounds.

Only one infant gate has staff directly next to it, the other infant gate has someone sort of near it. Junior side has one staff member somewhere in playground, maybe near one gate but not other.

I know for a fact of at least one junior child who was able to leave after drop off and before being called in.

What do you think? Is this normal security wise for schools?

Ok not very short sorry!!

I'd say they would notice very quickly at my DCs school. There is a member of staff in each playground, just not at the gate. If someone started heading out the gate alone, you can be certain that another child would have told the teacher before they walked the length of themselves.

I agree with you OP. Our school (Yr-Y6) has 2 gates, both which have staff members standing by during morning and afternoon drop off.

It isn't just about children running out, unfortunately, it's about the possibility of unauthorised people coming in. (This has happened in at least 3 schools that I know of, and I don't work in education or have much contact with schools.)

I'm of the view that you just don't take chances with child protection. If parents are told that children can be left in the playground from 8.40am and school doesn't begin until 8.50am then the school should be providing supervision for that 10 minutes.

Treacle but if they did slip out unnoticed (a child at my dc school did manage it) how long before it would be noticed?

There are 3 gates at our primary, none manned. There is a member of staff on the playground. The expectation is that infants are taken to their classroom door, juniors are taken to the playground. There's nothing to stop infants being left though. Infants are let out one-by-one to their carer. Juniors are let out into the playground when school finishes and can go back to their teacher if no one is there. The same was true at my kids' old primary school. It seems pretty normal.

I read it as supervised as there are staff on or near at least two gates.

At our primary infants are handed over at the classroom door and juniors are left to run in at the juniors' entrance (within the school grounds). In a recent newsletter the head reminded parents that the doors open at 8.45 so infants must be supervised until the doors open and juniors dropped no earlier than 8.35. They do not take responsibility for the children until they're inside.

I think the school is being unimaginative and I'm surprised by the responses. It isn't about the juniors, but the infants who could easily wander unobserved round the site and out of a junior gate.

Christina - yes I was trying hard not to mention that possibility so I wouldn't be labelled hysterical;-)

Also what about at risk children being groomed and encouraged to slip out of school?

Just seems unnecessary risk taking as you say.

Just on schools noticing missing children.... a YR child was missing from their classroom for a while in a local school. Not for long, but long enough to be found in the playground with older children after something serious enough to involve social services had happened to him.

Not my children's school, but all local schools were informed about the incident afterwards. Our school is extremely tight on monitoring the whereabouts of children and who is or isn't in the ground or buildings, and I'm very happy about this, even if it seems restrictive to some parents/carers.

When I did playground duty I had to stand by the gate to ensure that no children left after they had been delivered; another member of staff had to stand in the playground to supervise the children; the same procedure in the other playground, even though those gates were locked, and one teacher had to patrol the back of the school. So five adults to supervise entry to the school. It would have been easier if parents hadn't cluttered up the gates by trying to watch their children in the playground, or waited to catch a glimpse of the male reception teacher. Yes really, they were that desperate.

It's not hysterical *Woolley. As I said, I know of several schools where this has happened (two attempted abductions, one someone under the influence of alcohol walking in through the school gate).

Primary schools near Sailsbury had police on their gates in the summer, following several attempted abductions.

Before this academic year it was explicitly unsupervised before going into classrooms.
The school deliberately changed the process telling parents it is now supervised.
Yes 2gates probably mostly adequately monitored, 2 not so much.
Unlikely but possible for infants to leave by junior gates. Very possible for juniors to leave unnoticed.

Well my dd went to the school for 3 years, ds has been there 2 years now. One child jumped the fence, no others.

Anyone can come into a school when the gates are open. When I am waiting for ds to go in many parents are stood without their kids.

Many people have grandparents, childminders, friends doing drop off.

So it's unlikely anyone would spot a stranger who shouldn't be there.

It wouldn't how many teachers were on each gate.

I don't think YABU but I'm usually in a minority on threads like this. If the school rule is that the DCs have to be left then imo that makes them responsible for the DCs. I have no idea how they can take responsibility when the DCs are free to roam and the school has no idea who has been dropped off and who hasn't.

At DS' school in the morning, P1 (age5) and P2 (age 6) play inside with two TAs supervising. P3 (age 7) play outside in their own playground. The entrance to their playground is monitored by a teacher so they can't just wander off or leave. By P4 they are allowed into a larger playground but there are still janitors and TAs at the entrance so no-one can escape.

Easy peasey for unknown adults to enter premises.

Christina thanks for that it's horrible, poor kids but clearly it's a possibility and it surprises me our school seems oblivious to the possibilities

Am wondering where your school is as it sounds very similar to my kids.

This is a relatively new set up thst kids can be dropped from 8:40 and there are staff in the playground and whistle blows at 8:50, kids then line up and go in.

Reception kids are taken to the door but all other years can be left, my yr 3 and yr 6 kids go round on their own as I take youngest to reception class. School all one site and is a primary but juniors one side of building and infants the others, you xan get all the way round the school in the grounds.

I think it's fine but some parents are still anxious leaving before the whistle though they then complain about hanging a out. The school did this to encourage independence so parents not going into cloakrooms etc and to help working parents.

In infants playground one gate is staffed and then another staff member is in playground.

In juniors there are staff in playground but not specifically on the gate, they have walkie talkies to communicate and they would notice if a child wasn't at school. My youngest is off today, I thought when dh dropped the older two he would tell the offuce, but he forgot and I then had a txt and phone call asking where youngest was just after registration. Registration is done 8:50-9am.

Is this school in Norfolk op?

I honestly can't see how a child would slip out totally unnoticed at my own DCs school during drop off time. It would be much much easier for them to eg ask to go to the toilet during class and then try to sneak off the school grounds.

But if they did manage to get out during drop off, they would run into all the parents walking towards the school. And if they walked back past all the parents walking towards the school, and none of them questioned it or alerted the school, they would then come to the crossing patrol man, who would also know that they were going in the wrong direction (and probably would refuse to cross them over).

At our school if you don't call in to say your child isn't going to be in, your received a text and email.

Ds starts at 9am their texts usually come by 9.15am

Dd starts at 8.15am, texts and email sent by 8.30 at latest.

Anyone know about their schools process for checking re absent dc?

In Germany, children walk to school by themselves from age 6, and usually even before that will start walking to and from kindergarten on their own.
Why is that? How is it that this is not considered a security risk? They have to cross roads, get themselves into school on time, not dawdle or go off anywhere...

At our school you only have to contact the school on the third day of absence. We don't contact them at all if a child is only off for a day or two, we just have to send in an explanation in writing on their return.

at my childrens school the gates for key stage one and 2 have a member of staff on them from 8.30 am. the key stage one play ground also have staff in the actual play ground. the childrens teacher/ta comes out for each year so in the morning drop of there are several staff in the play ground

key stage 2 has someone on the gate. but i dont see any staff in the play ground.

theres also a member of staff just out side the school.

theres only one way in and out no other gates are open.

i think the op is right there should be someone on each gate. or lock the gate so there is one 1/2 gates to go in/out.

better to be safe than sorry weather the child is 3 or 11

Thanks everyone for responding, clearly there is a difference of opinion on this.
But also clearly as Christina's posts show, bad things can and do happen.
It feels like a magnitude of the risk issue to me. Unlikely for something terrible to happen but the consequences if it does make it not worth the risk. (IMO!!)

Hi, I'm a teacher.
I'm a little shocked by some of these responses too...
I don't think what you have described sounds like adequate supervision at all. If the children are the responsibility of the school then then the school has a duty to ensure that the children are not at risk... A gate lefts unstaffed is a big risk. I wouldn't leave my ks1 child in the playground alone under those circumstances. Have a meeting with the headteacher. Contact ofsted if you still have problems xx

Why don't you take it up with the school? Posting on AIBU isn't going to get anything resolved.
I used to bunk off from primary school, I lived across the road and within four hours the school would have phoned my mum. If ever I left the school I'd always go home anyway
One day an older pupil threatened our school with a gun, that was scary and the school was evacuated.

Um elf why do people usually post on Aibu?

If Aibu then I might not take it up with the school!

I posted to see what other people think before deciding what, if anything, to do....

Thanks thetruthfairy, that's helpful