To think ToysRUs are taking advantage

[minifingerz]

Of my dd?

She is 16 and this is her first job. She has been told she has to work Christmas Eve until 7pm, and Boxing Day, for £4.48 an hour. This is the minimum wage for 16 year olds.

Now I totally understand the rationale for starting 16 year olds on a pittance - it makes sense for employers to take them on because they are cheaper and so decreases youth unemployment. But once a child has started work and proven themselves to be as competent as the adults they are working with, then businesses shouldn't take advantage of these very low pay rates to staff their shops as cheaply as possible on bank holidays and Sundays should they?

Obviously I've not said this to dd. I've told her to work her buns off, beat all her targets for plastic bag sales and be the best shop assistant she can be. She's going down a storm. One customer actually gave her chocolates this week for being so helpful, and she is proving a mistress of ringing up sales fast while distracting whiny children at the checkouts with free catalogues and jolly smiles.

So AIBU?

Boxing Day isn't a bank holiday this year.

As its a Saturday, the bank holiday is Monday.

Is that your think Boxing Day wages should be higher?

There isn't a legal obligation to pay any extra time on Sundays or Bank Holidays, so I don't see how they're doing anything wrong.

Most places DO pay extra, but they certainly don't have to.

Sorry I know this is off topic but shop assistants have targets for plastic bag sales? I thought the point of the carrier bag charge was to discourage plastic bag use and encourage people to bring bags from home and also that the store doesn't make a profit, so why do they have targets for selling them?

*pay extra for bank holidays, that is. Most Sunday work is paid at basic rate.

The have targets for plastic bag sales?!?!

I have to work till 6 Christmas Eve and then again on Boxing Day. Fir £6.70 an hour. At least your dd doesn't have to cook the Christmas dinner too :)

Yes -for the reusable bags!

No - no legal obligation.

But a moral obligation to pay young people for the value of the work they do - at least at the rate that others who are doing the same job with the same level of commitment.

Bless dd though, she's throwing herself into it. That's why I feel sad that she's taking home so little for a really gruelling day's work (you can imagine what it's like in there at this time of year).

Was just thinking the same as mcdog. They are trying to sell more plastic bags??

I don't know if YABU or not sorry OP. It sounds legal to me at least if not ideal. I've had to do the same over a couple of Christmases and New Years when I was younger. It's so tough working and going to school at the same time though and it always seems like you get the short straw in terms of shifts as the part-timer, so DD has my sympathy.

I think you've set out the rationale well yourself. 16 year olds have little experience. If employers had to pay them adult NMW then they would take them on. If you are good st your job and stick around then you'll get paid more with experience. It sounds like DD is doing well and building up a good work ethic :)

They would not take them on, sorry.

YABU it's not just your daughter that won't be getting paid 'enhancements' it's not an official BH so why would she?

Welcome to the fabulous world of retail!!

Yabu, a bit. I imagine Toys R Us need all hands on deck at this time of year.

If she wasn't available to do those shifts, she shouldn't have taken the job.

Likewise, Toys R Us shouldn't hire people unable/unwilling to work them.

Nothing unfair about that.

Reminds me of one of my student summer jobs...

Permanent staff got paid tim and a half for overtime. They asked the permanent staff what was a good rate for the temps overtime. Time and a third.

So all us students got the overtime!

Yes, any big store will use its cheapest labour.
But they are mean telling her what times she has to work!

It sucks but it's retail. It's not like the shop will be staffed by 16 year olds only. They will be employing other staff too on those days.

Retail is far from moral!

I know it's "just what big stores do", but the disparity in pay seems very unfair. I'm a Christmas temp for a big supermarket, working 6am-2pm every day until Christmas eve. I'm 21 and on £7.50 an hour - as is the temp in her 40s and the one who has just turned 16. Time and a half on Sundays, and we work every Sunday, and great working conditions.

What Toys R Us is doing is legal, but a bit shit. Sorry for your DD.

I worked a 24 hour shift last year, 8am Christmas day to 8am Boxing day. No overtime pay. No extras. (Well we got a free lunch, but as I was doing an emergency operation during lunch hour, I didnt get it). But thats how it is in my job.

The main thing would be, is she being treated fairly? The minimum wage is standard, so fair enough. Is everyone else getting overtime and just her not? Or is it the same for everyone? Are the shifts allocated fairly? Seems a bit harsh to get Christmas eve AND Boxing day, but those are the two busiest days so its possible that they have a lot of extra staff on those days. Hopefully she's getting good experience, and so long as she is being treated the same as all the other staff, then it's fine.

It'll be good on her cv in the future. If she ever gets an interview question about how well she would cope with a stressful working situation, I think pointing out that she has worked in a toy shop over Christmas would pretty much answer the question.

Unfortunately it's the way it's always been in retail, I had to work Sunday's and bank holidays for £1.98 an hour from age 16-18 and then I moved into hospitality and got something like £4 an hour so had to work a second job in a pub on top of my hotel job to enable me to afford my house share

Sorry but this is nothing new it was the same when I was 16 and I'm now 30. I used to get paid half what the older workers did. It will still be the same in 10 years time.

I remain confused about how we can have an Act against discrimination on the basis of age, and then pay different rates of NMW according to age.

So in that sense, yes they are taking advantage, but in terms of the day's she has been rostered, it's often the case that the newest staff get given the shit shifts and the longer serving ones get their pick of holiday first.

I think £4.48 an hour for a 16 year old is very good. Sounds as if she has her head screwed on the right way and with her attitude I'm sure she'll do well.

It's much more important that you are supporting her doing this (which you are) than letting her know that you feel she is being short changed (which I don't think she is). Great life experience for her.

Just for a quick comparison my DD, a student, is 17 and part-time at Costa Coffee. She started at £4 an hour but within a week was on £5.30 an hour. Apparently Boots is the one that pays the best for our youngsters.

The last time I worked in a shop at Christmas I had to work the day before Christmas Eve, Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. And as I'd gone to my family for Christmas and there were no trains on Boxing Day I had to get two coaches to London and then the bus. No extra pay either. That's retail for you!