Ridiculously overcrowded train

[dodobookends]

On a busy Saturday lunchtime three weeks before Christmas (and on a day when Arsenal are playing at home) and there are thousands of extra passengers, AIBU to expect the train between Peterborough and Kings Cross to have more than FOUR sodding coaches?

Well where I live (in London and SE) - sometimes for fun without warning I think it's southern trains put on a 4 or 5 carriage train in rush hour.... You only know when it stops further and everyone has to run for the train....

The other week I had a new commute to Farringdon and that's even worse... The train is busy as it goes from South London to City Thameslink, Luton etc and stops at eg Elephant and castle for tube connections (or if you want to walk to Waterloo). The trains there then seem to be ridiculously spaced out, eg a huge gap between just after 8.10 or something With no more trains until 8.28 I think it is... Then a few more... But all the trains seem to have far few carriages, hence the sardines in a tin syndrome and you're squeezed with no room to move. Every morning. I was only temping luckily so stopped that commute but may have to,consider it for another job but it takes its toll standing for 20 or 30 minutes solid every morning! Heard a few shouty/spoken fights with people too along the lines of "you should get an earlier train, please move down etc".

It is like that every day in peak time where I am. It is very dangerous really. Often it is so crammed some people can't get on and so are late for work or picking children up from childcare. Apparently there are no rules for how many people can cram into a carriage standing. I always wonder what happens if there is an emergency or someone needs CPR. Why is there no risk assessment etc.

All in the name of maximising profit.

Superflyhigh we take the same train! Or did... I usually get a seat in the morning as I board at one of the earlier stops, but the evening commute from St Pancras is awful, and a train once every half hour is just not enough at peak times!

OP YANBU

Most train operating companies couldn't run a piss up in a brewery. They can read the weather reports like anyone else, they can be prepared, but they Just.Don't.Care

Eh? What does them reading the weather reports have to do with anything? They can't control the weather and the knock on effects on the railway. There was a shed under a train this weekend, how the hell are they supposed to foresee that?!

I do understand why people get frustrated by public transport and trains in particular but there is a national shortage of rolling stock, which the government controls, not the TOC's. There are massive issues around how and whether it would even be desirable to ensure all passengers had a seat, not to mention the additional costs of policing that ideal. They have no control of the weather, of the demands placed on them by events such as football, Christmas markets etc.

When I see people on my TOC's twitter account saying things along the line of 'you knew it would be busy with the football and Christmas shopping' I always wonder why that doesn't apply to the passengers too.

Another poster at 22:13:43 told the OP she was BU because she should have known that the trains would be crowded in terrible weather & the poor old ToCs wouldn't be able to run all the trains. Here:

The trains have been cancelled all day due to the weather. That means that there are less trains in the places that they need to be as it knocks on.

Did you not notice the storms going on? Do you live in a wonderful weather free environment?

Whereas I was suggesting that the ToCs could very well read weather reports and prepare for bad weather. Because y'know, like it's winter We have storms & bad weather. FFS they manage in Germany, Austria, Switzerland & Russia.

Prepare how?

'you knew it would be busy with the football and Christmas shopping' I always wonder why that doesn't apply to the passengers too

This really sounds as though you think that the railways would 'run better' without passengers! Do you work for a ToC?

I'm not being sarky but honestly, how much can they be expected to do? This weekend there was the aforementioned shed under a train. Damaged train, massive delays. Line cleared of debris, reopens, short while later line floods. Rail replacement transport put in place. Gets trapped by fallen trees etc, police close local roads and advise against all travel.

I do work for a TOC, yes. I hinted as much. I don't think the railway would work better without passengers at all. I think that at busy times people may have to expect that things don't run exactly as they wish though. In the same way that I resign myself to driving round for ages before finding a parking space on a Saturday in the run up to Christmas. I don't think that necessarily means there ought to be more parking spaces.

'You knew it would be busy with the football and Christmas shopping' I always wonder why that doesn't apply to the passengers too

I wasn't going shopping or to the football, I was visiting my student daughter who was ill, and who lives in London.

YANBU. However, be glad there was a train. Some of our local trains have been cancelled recently; it appears the carriages were needed elsewhere (down south). It's not particularly unusual.

The full quote would make it quite clear that my comment wasn't aimed at you OP, despite your post alluding to both.

I'm not in any way trying to attack passengers, I've already said I understand why people get frustrated and I truly do. I've tried to show why weather related disruption is so difficult to deal with after someone said information goes a long way to making the situation better. I've explained the rolling stock issue needs to be addressed by the government, not the TOC's.

Try travelling between Fife and Edinburgh right now!

The train was almost empty going over to Edinburgh yesterday afternoon, and busier but ok this afternoon.

Tomorrow morning though ...

Yes fuckit, I can completely see why that is annoying! Nothing like the collective groan that goes up when only half of what you expected rolls into the platform. If I was travelling passenger I'd be groaning too.

Bumdance, for the umpteenth time, there wan't any weather-related disruption here. Other than a stiff breeze, the weather was clear and troubles elsewhere would have had no effect on our service.

I know they have the rolling stock, because they can manage to put on 12 carriages on every train in the rush hour during the week. There are normally 8 coaches on the Saturday services. It isn't just 'theoretically' possible, it IS possible for them to run 8 instead of 4, and they DO on other Saturdays, so why the bloody hell didn't they this time, when they knew damn well it would be far busier than usual?

Incidentally, it wouldn't have been possible to sit on the floor by the toilets (as another poster mentions upthread), there were too many of us for anyone to have had the luxury of that much floorspace to themselves.

Even first class was pressed into service and was crammed to the rafters (how often do you ever see that, eh?). I have genuinely never seen a train so full. At least during the rush hour, the train is mostly full of working-age people who are used to it - not pregnant women carrying tots, people with massive suitcases, and frail elderly types having to stand for an age (not because nobody would give up their seat, but because they were jammed in a corner and couldn't move enough to turn round.

Dodo I was never replying to you about the weather. As you'll be able to see by reading back, Multishirking posted directly before me, about the weather. I clearly replied. Don't be disingenuous, you disagree with me which is fine but selective quoting and ignoring developments in the thread to imply I'm haranguing you is poor form.

Life's too bloody short, and this is AIBU, poor form comes as standard

I know they have the rolling stock, because they can manage to put on 12 carriages on every train in the rush hour during the week. There are normally 8 coaches on the Saturday services. It isn't just 'theoretically' possible, it IS possible for them to run 8 instead of 4, and they DO on other Saturdays

Maybe they have lent some to Scotrail?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/04/scotland-scrambles-to-find-extra-trains-after-closure-of-forth-road-bridge

As I mentioned before it's likely wheel flats are contributing too. That will get less frequent as we turn into winter.

Don't forget that carriages come in sets (often in 4s but you can get 3s and 5s as well) that can't be broken up which is why a shortformed train will be half as long (sometimes a third as long) as usual.

As Bumdance has said TOCs don't get to decide how many trains they have. The government tell them how many they can rent from the rolling stock operating companies. Those trains do need to be maintained which is usually at the weekend which even in the run up to Christmas will be less busy for most services than during weekday peaks. This means if there are faults with carriages at the weekend trains end up shortformed. TOCs don't control how many carriage sets they have so they don't have the option of having a load laying around as spares.

Honestly TOCs want to have all the rolling stock they can out there. They don't shortform trains for fun.

There was a fire in the train toilet while I was travelling yesterday. It was very crowded service with people going to the big Christmas market here. Fortunately it was minor, but I hate to think what would have happened if it had been more serious-people were packed in corridors and doorways. I appreciate all that has been said about the difficulties facing ToCs, but do worry about the possible consequences.

TOC's don't get to decide how many trains they have. The government tell them how many they can rent from the rolling stock operating companies

Well that sums it up really doesn't it?

Perhaps Corbyn is right and they should re-nationalise the whole bloody lot - at least then we'd know which part of the rail company to complain to!

Maybe they have lent some to Scotrail?

I was about to say that.