Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you have given back this deposit or expected it back?

71 replies

TheOtherSideOfNo · 04/12/2015 12:55

NC as this is quite outing.

If you were a landlord and you rented a studio flat (within a house that you own) to a tenant with a deposit of circa £700 I'd like to know if you'd have given it back.

The key parts of the contract state that 3 months notice must be given if the tenant intends to leave and the tenant is not to smoke or damage the appliances.

The tenant smoked throughout their 2 year residency and 3 months prior to the end of the contract (August 2014) requested an extension to January 2015. The landlord e-mailed the tenant in January to ask if they'd be extending their stay and the tenant said no, thus no notice such period was given.

The landlord then had to spend money on getting rid of the smell of smoke but there was no damage to the studio.

Would you under these circumstances have given back all or part of the deposit as a landlord or expected it back as a tenant?

OP posts:
rookiemere · 04/12/2015 13:56

Regarding the smoking, when BIL died the landlord witheld the deposit. It was absolutely fair as BIL was a very heavy smoker and I would imagine he would have had to replace the carpets and repaint, so no I wouldn't expect the tenant to get the deposit back. The notice thing is confusing and I would ignore that as a factor.

MoriartyIsMyAngel · 04/12/2015 13:58

Pay for it be professionally cleaned, and give back whatever's left?

TheBunnyOfDoom · 04/12/2015 14:00

You can't enforce the three months notice. We privately rent and we have to give thirty days. Our landlord can't make us give any more than that (although we would if we could - he's nice and we wouldn't want to leave him in the shit).

As for the smoking, I think you can only claim for it if there's damage/cleaning costs associated with it. You could probably claim for the costs of a steam clean or whatever, but nothing else. Especially as you knew about it and let them stay there anyway!

steakpunararemediumwelldone · 04/12/2015 14:06

A couple of things would matter for me here. Did the landlord know about the smoking in advance and do nothing ? We have 6 monthly inspections on our current property and we had 3 monthly ones on our previous one so if the property had not been inspected then how would the landlord know smoking has been continuous and if it was then why was the smoking not brought up earlier?
What sort of appeal has been lodged through the deposit scheme? When we left the last place they asked for deductions for 2 things. One we agreed to, the other was a repair that we had an email trail requesting be fixed that had not been that they then tried to deduct. It took a two minute email to say we would not agree to that but we would agree to the first and then it was all pushed through DPS with no problems. If the deposit is not in a proper scheme then I would expect the landlord to return all the money as they have not got a leg to stand on.
The end time of lease is irrelevant.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 04/12/2015 14:08

As I understand it the 3 months notice would only be relevant if they were wanting to leave before the end of the agreed term. Otherwise the tenant does not have to give notice any more, their tenancy just ends of the date given unless they request to extend it. Landlords still have to give proper notice of a minimum of two months.

So you could try to deduct for smoke damage but would have to make the case to the deposit protection scheme.

Fizrim · 04/12/2015 14:15

Are you the tenant?

I think the usual rules apply if it is a separate residence, but not a rented room. The tenant possibly should have given notice one month before the end of the extension but I'd let that one go.

As for the smoking - yes, should lose as much of the deposit (and it would probably cost a lot more than the deposit) to clean the place.

Whoever owns the property gets to set the rules on pets and smoking!

TheOriginalMerylStrop · 04/12/2015 14:22

Has the smoking damaged the property? The landlord would be reasonable to keep back money to repaint, if walls discoloured, clean or replace soft furnishings if they stink of smoke. In my not at all legally qualified but experienced at renting opinion.

Notice was given. January 15.

Long time ago - are you being chased for money, or chasing?

TheBunnyOfDoom · 04/12/2015 14:24

The problem with the smoking is that if the landlord knew about it and didn't serve notice, it could be said that actually, they were okay with it so that voids that aspect of the contract.

ChristmasEvePJs · 04/12/2015 14:30

The notice was January 15, as the contract ended then.

Surely the landlord must have been aware of smoking if in such close proximity? When in doing repairs etc. A percentage of deposit to re-paint, deep clean would be reasonable if the smell of smoke was there.

AnnekaRice · 04/12/2015 14:31

Deposit must be in an approved scheme or the penalty is landlord must return 3x the deposit back to the tenant.

3 months notice is not reasonable term

deductions should be minimal for cleaning. It would appear that the LL failed to clarify the extension of the tenancy and it thus came across as a fixed term.

I think if deposit not in a scheme, landlord should return all of it!

If in a scheme, and a proper tenancy was in place I'd think fair to retain charges relating to smoke smell only.

AnnekaRice · 04/12/2015 14:33

in fact, the tenant probably fulfilled their notice obligation in August. Anyway, after an initial term, maximum notice is 1 month legally, 2 months the other way around. Is it a proper assured shorthold? all sounds dodgy

AnnekaRice · 04/12/2015 14:38

oh, within house that LL owns also sounds dodgy. Doubt this is valid tenancy at all. Suspect tenant would have licence.

KitZacJak · 04/12/2015 14:43

Surely after 2 years a landlord should be redecorating and deep cleaning the flat anyway regardless of whether a smoker lived there or not so I don't see how they could take cleaning money. However, after this then I think it would be fair to take some deposit if the carpet or sofa still stank and needed to be replaced.

Not sure about the notice thing, it sounds like the tenant said they were leaving in Jan and left in Jan.

Original poster
TheOtherSideOfNo · 04/12/2015 14:53

I really can't tell whether the tides are in favour of LL unreasonableness or tenant unreasonableness.

If it makes a difference I'm actually the tenant. The property was not subjected to regular inspections. Not sure why that would even happen tbh.

OP posts:
YouGottaKeepEmSeparated · 04/12/2015 14:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouGottaKeepEmSeparated · 04/12/2015 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsGradyOldLady · 04/12/2015 15:04

I was just going to say the same as a poster above - wouldn't the property need decorating and cleaning between tenants anyway?

BatteryOperatedBoyfriend · 04/12/2015 15:05

I agree, what type of tenancy did you have. It should be a licence is its a converted property within the landlords

Was there an Inventory?

I do think that regardless if you smoked in there for 2 years when you weren't supposed to, you should foot the bill for getting rid of the smell.

BatteryOperatedBoyfriend · 04/12/2015 15:07

Was your deposit protected? I'm presuming the LL still has your deposit?

MaxPepsi · 04/12/2015 15:12

Decorating does not always conceal the effects of smoke.

My landlord had to completely re plaster the house we are in due to the previous tenant smoking.

He now has a no smoking clause, which suits us fine, as I don't have to feel inhospitable asking my friends and family to go outside.

ClancyMoped · 04/12/2015 15:14

I think it would be reasonable to expect to pay some damages because of the smoking. After two years the smell would be everywhere. It could easily require redecoration plus the carpets being cleaned plus extra general cleaning.
Depends on how much and what you smoked Smile

AnnekaRice · 04/12/2015 15:16

Hmm. Difficult. LL's being dodgy. You could issue in court for the deposit back, and three times penalty, and send him notice of doing so on the presumption it was a valid tenancy..
In alternative, tell them it was a licence, threaten recovery in court and tell them you agree to a small deduction for smoke (whatever the going rate is for deep cleaning)

ComposHatComesBack · 04/12/2015 15:16

Given the landlord seems like a bungling amateur, the likelihood of them having used a tenancy deposit protection scheme seems slim. If it isn't held in such a scheme and assuming this is in England &Wales, write to your landlord and say you want your deposit back in full within 10 days and the consequences for the landlord (you awarded x3 deposit)

MultishirkingAgain · 04/12/2015 15:31

So you're the tenant and you deliberately and knowingly broke a condition of your lease (the smoking) and you expect the deposit back? YABU

Reprinting and recarpeting could easily swallow up £700. Why do you think you should get any of your deposit back?

var123 · 04/12/2015 15:38

3 months is too long, but no notice at is required if contract states and end date. The LL cannot simply assume that the contract will rollover. However, if you stay one day after the end date on the contract and you are into a statutory tenancy (I think that's the right term) and you have to give 1 months notice on or before the day you pay the rent.

Smoke does damage stuff and cleaning is expensive, especially when professional cleaners are hired to do it (which the LL would be entitled to do).

Why on earth did you sign a lease saying you will not smoke, and then do it?

Swipe left for the next trending thread