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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is akin to slave labour.

406 replies

northernsoul78 · 29/11/2015 18:35

A friend on JSA is expected to do 30 hours mandatory (voluntary) work in a charity shop for 30 hours per week and apply for at least 10 jobs per week. It wouldn't be so bad if the voluntary work wouldbe likely to lead to a job but ofcourse it won't.
Aibu

OP posts:
Itscliffmas · 29/11/2015 20:13

I think this depends on the situation, if somebody has been on JSA for a long period then I think yes it is a great idea to volunteer in the sector which they are looking for a job in, it would show potential employees that the candidate has a good work ethic and providing they do a good job will be able to give extra references at interviews.

Tiivola · 29/11/2015 20:13

Surely people have already paid for their JSA through the taxes they paid while they were in work. So by asking them to provide labour in return for their JSA, they are effectively being asked to pay for it twice.

Of course, not everybody pays the same amount in through taxes when in work as they receive in JSA when they are out of work, but that's true of any insurance-type system that involves the sharing of risk.

HelenaDove · 29/11/2015 20:14

jane if its stretched over 7 days how soon do your employees know exactly when they are working. How soon do you produce the rostas.

HelenaDove · 29/11/2015 20:14

Sorry i meant rotas.

BanningTheWordNaice · 29/11/2015 20:17

Can I change my answer? I've just thought about it more and no under the circumstances you've described I don't think that's acceptable. I'd argue that only organizations running a scheme where they actually properly train people while they work for free should be forced on people with sanctions so that they have experience and responsibilities they can talk about not just the crap stuff noone else wants to do.

I can also imagine depending where your friend is that transport becomes a problem - I'm currently job hunting and not claiming jsa but do about 10 hours a week volunteering for which I pay park and ride parking otherwise it would be 5.70 return on the bus :/

And yes I was completely disgusted when I saw the post advertised. I'm not even sure it's legal...

MyMoneyIsAllSpent · 29/11/2015 20:17

They are making it harder and harder to get the JSA IME.

I divorced and moved house and after running my own business for over 20 years I took a job as a carer, work which is very different from what I am used to, but I find very rewarding. Unfortunately, as usual in this line of work, I found it hard to get enough hours to actually earn enough to live on. The hoops they wanted me to jump through were demeaning and time wasting.

I managed to find a job with a better company but during the transition (waiting for my DBS) I had to keep applying for a minimum number of jobs, that I did not want and had no intention of applying for, wasting my time, energy and the time of the people I was applying to. They tried to tell me how to improve my CV. Well, in all my years of applying for jobs only one company has ever turned me down. I do not think there is a problem with my CV! All I wanted was a little financial help to assist me in a difficult time of my life.

And as for trying to get a better job, the area where I live is one of the most deprived in the country. There are no jobs. And at my age it is not likely I would be employed. It is all so very depressing.

HelenaDove · 29/11/2015 20:19

Yes a lot of people dont want to work Sundays Jane. Including the heating engineers who were happy to leave the social housing tenant MNer and her two young DC to freeze for a month.

But on that thread you said SHE was the entitled one.

Decide4Yourself · 29/11/2015 20:22

Who would you rather employ?

Two very similar applicants,

One comes with a reference from a charity detailing how the applicant was hardworking, punctual, polite, shows initiative and has a 100% attendance record.

The other comes without a reference.

redbinneo · 29/11/2015 20:28

No one is forcing him/her to claim the JSA. The work in a charity shop gives an opportunity to socialise and get some work experience.

AnthonyBlanche · 29/11/2015 20:28

To be honest Gwen it is about 15 years since I had no job and was looking for one. I've moved jobs a couple of times since then for promotion and better pay.

However, I think my views are coloured by the city I work in which has a very buoyant economy and jobs market, there are definitely jobs for those that want them - though I guess anyone without skills which are in demand wouldn't be able to be picky.

mrsjanedoe · 29/11/2015 20:29

HelenaDove

It's 5 days a week, 2 days off.

Rotas are for 3 months, but with the help of temps. People apply, and start working with no intention on staying. They want "to go out Friday night", or "family time" and weekends are terribly unpopular. This one is an office job, not the most interesting thing on earth, but not a call center and with bonuses.
(Sorry, but must stay vague on that one!)

Emergency services somehow manage to work weekends.

cruikshank · 29/11/2015 20:29

Why on earth would the OP's friend not have a reference? Do you think that just because she's claiming JSA now she has never worked? This is what gets me with this glib 'It teaches you work skills' bullshit that threads like this are peppered with - just because a person is unemployed, it doesn't mean they've never gone to work, never got up for shifts, never learned how to participate in the workforce. Pretty much all of the JSA claimants already know how to work - it's just that they aren't in work at the moment. What they need is not lessons in how to fold clothes but a fair wage for a fair day's work, just like everyone else.

I'd like to see all of the people spouting off on here give up their jobs and go and work in fucking Oxfam for free, and then ask them six months down the line how valued a member of society they feel. After all, if it's good enough for someone who had a job and now doesn't, surely it's good enough for someone who has a job already. Come on, you fannies. Get some work experience. Get yourself a reference. It's rewarding to work for nothing, don't you know?

SurlyCue · 29/11/2015 20:32

No one is forcing him/her to claim the JSA

True. But the alternative is starve, freeze and die. Ooh its a toughie, but yeah you're right, he could just not claim JSA couldnt he? Hmm

OddSocksHighHeels · 29/11/2015 20:32

Well nobody is forcing him to be on JSA but what's the alternative while he's out of work? He still has to eat, pay rent and bills.

mrsjanedoe · 29/11/2015 20:35

HelenaDove

please don't take my comment on another thread completely out of context. I was replying to a previous poster who attacked me when I suggested something (maybe wrongly, but not maliciously). My point was to NOT leave the kids freeze for a month!

I know people don't want to work Sundays! Fair enough, but then why should we pay for them to stay home when the rest of us works? We all have families!

Around 40% of people I see for interviews are late. I don't feel the motivation for work at all.

Witchend · 29/11/2015 20:35

I started looking for a job after ds went to school having not worked. After a number of applications not getting anywhere I went volunteered at various places, one of which led directly to a job.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 29/11/2015 20:35

No one is forcing him/her to claim the JSA.

Are you for real? Have you thought that through at all? What do you think JSA is? Some sort of state sponsored pocket money for spending on sweets and a round in the pub?!

How do you think he pays for his food and bills without it? Or do you imagine he lives off fresh air?

redbinneo · 29/11/2015 20:35

The trouble is cruikshank, paying people to stay at home encourages them to do just that. You might want to go to work to keep other people, I don't.

JumpandScore · 29/11/2015 20:36

I have a job and volunteer. I volunteered more when I didn't have a job. Yes, working for free (for a good cause) is rewarding. So is doing something (anything) that might improve your chances of getting the work you want. What else is he doing with his time that's so rewarding?

The sanctions are wrong imo, but it is good advice and unfortunately, some people need to be "forced" to help themselves.

redbinneo · 29/11/2015 20:37

SurlyCue, the alternative is to put in a shift at the charity shop, didn't you bother to read the OP?

cruikshank · 29/11/2015 20:37

Is that how it works then, redbinneo? Is that why there are 65 million people on the dole then? Oh hang on, there isn't.

AnthonyBlanche · 29/11/2015 20:40

Great idea cruik Hmm

Perhaps a lot of long term JSA claimants are lacking in skills which make them employable - such as being punctual and keen. If they really want to earn more than JSA gives them they would make sure they turn up for interviews on time and express enthusiasm for the job (even if it isn't that exciting)

redbinneo · 29/11/2015 20:40

"What do you think JSA is? Some sort of state sponsored pocket money for spending on sweets and a round in the pub?!"

That never crossed my mind, but since you mention it, what else would one do if charity shop work wasn't available?

These threads that support giving my tax to anyone who fancies loafing for a living really amaze me.

SurlyCue · 29/11/2015 20:41

The trouble is cruikshank, paying people to stay at home encourages them to do just that.

Its not paying people to sit at home. Job seekers allowance is a payment made to support a person in return for their agreement to look for employment. If they dont look for employment they lose the support.

redbinneo · 29/11/2015 20:42

Exactly cruikshank, that's because the dole isn't currently the financially attractive proposition you'd like it to be.

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