to think this is akin to slave labour.

[northernsoul78]

A friend on JSA is expected to do 30 hours mandatory (voluntary) work in a charity shop for 30 hours per week and apply for at least 10 jobs per week. It wouldn't be so bad if the voluntary work wouldbe likely to lead to a job but ofcourse it won't.
Aibu

Most of the volunteers aren't even allowed on the tills.

lemon I will pass on your words of wisdom to my 200 professional colleagues tomorrow and will be sure to email all friends and acquaintances in similar organisations to let them know too. If only we had known it is nothing but poor time management skills keeping us in the office until at least 7pm every night.

No problem.

It is one of my goals for the future to get DP's hours down to ten hour days. If someone is not being paid a salary or an hourly rate, it seems like how many hours they are working can't be judged the same way. I have done plenty of jobs on low hourly rates where your pay stops at a set time but you are required to work longer in order to keep the job. It was annoying but within limits it is acceptable.

I think the most interesting thing is the pp who said that, according to all studies, these schemes make people less likely to get back into a job. That seems fairly key!

Northern, I am glad your friend enjoys the time there at least. Is there a computer there or anything that he might be allowed to use to help with job hunting?

Great idea purple your comment is meaningless as you seem to be mixing me up with someone who doesn't have a job.

The UK has a terrible attitude towards working hours. Saying you work 10 hours a day is nothing to be proud of. People claim some sort of martyr status because they work such ridiculous hours. Some industries much worse than others (finance springs to mind). We really have a lot to do to address this really unhealthy mindset.

Hear, hear, SurlyCue. The culture of presenteeism is poisonous.

Surly I am not at all proud to be working an average 10 hour day. It is unfortunately the norm in my profession - not finance.

Average professional jobs paying 60 to 70k or similar per year.

rubbish! Where on earth did you get that from!?

Average professional roles are WELL under half of that, with a work load WELL over double what your friend is doing.

Anyone who thinks teachers who work 18+ hours a day are doing it because of poor time management obviously have no idea what is going on in the real world.

As the benefits bill goes up and up and up, the country can afford fewer and fewer jobs in the state sector, so more and more work is piled on to fewer workers........

It is absolutly right that people on benefits contribute their labour while they are job hunting.

When he attempts a teaching job, and finds he is required to work straight through the night several times a week for months on end, he doesn't have time to cook or eat and can only grab something cold from a shop to eat while travelling to or from work, can't get in in time to see his children before they go to sleep in the evenings ( teenage children, who go to sleep at 9-10pm!!!!)

Then he will in fact have some idea what slave labour actually means!

Right now he is expected to stir himself for 6 measly hours a day, for which he is paid, and from which he will benefit.

he is basically on holiday.

And nothing to do with presenteeism pointy. People leave the office as soon as they can.

Sorry I was referring to the roles my dh have done which paid salaries in that ballpark. His last boss earned considerably more than that but put in even more hours. Unsurprisingly the sector is finance. He has always worked on average 10 hours although tbf in his current role there seems to be less of a culture of working long hours and is probably doing 8 to 9 a day at most. Incidently is one of my hourly paid roles you had to stay until the till balanced and in recent times overtime was never paid. But even allowing for this I still earned above min wage.

If everyone in your office needs to work 10 hour days then whoever owns the business is shit at people management. It isn't necessary to work people that hard. Unless of course you want to employ as few people as possible to save on wages and maximise profits. If you're happy to work that way fine, but don't think of it as normal and reasonable. It isn't. It shouldn't be.

but don't think of it as normal and reasonable. It isn't. no, 10 hours a day isn't normal, it is an awful lot less than people in many professions have to do

Sounds awful sharon But with the mandatory job applications with no real facilities to do it bar l the library you must surely be ably to see that he is not doing 30 hours . more like 40 to 50 hours. Even more if he is fortunate enough to be invited for an interview. He is clearly living the life of rilely on £73 or maybe £140 to £150 if you include housing help.
Although I have also heard people say that those on JSa should be treating job sesrvhing as a full time job. So thst makes it 65 hours per week.

Surly I am not at all proud to be working an average 10 hour day.

Apologies, i misinterpretted your sneering comment regarding another poster's idea of full time as pride in your excessive working hours. It is a shame this is the norm in your industry and so many of you (hundreds?) just go along with it. This is what I mean about having a long way to go to change this issue, and it is an issue. Average 10 hours a day is not healthy. I have two very "easy" (to me- not stressful) jobs and i still wouldnt/couldnt do them for 10 hours a day.

hopefully he will get a good reference out of it, Northern.

When asked for references for students, employers mostly ask about attendance and punctuality, then other things such as initiative, team work, etc, so scoring highly in those areas will help him a lot.

I imagine he scored highly at his long-term factory job before being made redundant, sharon, and also in the voluntary work he's been doing voluntarily for months.

This is going round in circles now.

sharon he is 62 and worked for 35 years in the same factory. What makes his NI payments worth less than yours or Anthonys come to that.

Oh and Anthony as you are so keen on ppl moving to find work i assume you are making up a bed on your sofa so a JSA claimant can sofa surf with you while he is looking for work.

It costs to move house. If you rent it is done on a bidding system online. Now social housing tenants have to ALREADY be in a job before they will be considered. So the job has to happen BEFORE the accomodation. A friend i went to school with who has learning difficulties has just been knocked back for this reason due to trying to downsize because of the bedroom tax.

And how the fuck can someone move for a low security NMW zero hrs contract job which a lot of them are. Are they supposed to continually move every few months each time these precarious jobs end.

sharon why would a reference for a work placement for a few weeks be worth more than a ref. from a job where they worked for 35 years. And before you start a lot of ex managers will still give references for ex workers even if the previous place has gone bust.

sharon here is a thread from a few years ago where ppl on JSA were doing night shifts.

This old thread is not yet 4 years old but compared with this latest thread you can see how well the rhetoric has worked.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1408019-to-think-Tesco-should-fucking-well-PAY-THEIR-STAFF

actually no, many unemployed graduates are forced into teaching

Well, there's a ringing endorsement for the teaching profession if ever I heard one. Can't get a job? Effectively unemployable? Come and be a teacher.

You're not exactly selling yourself as a beacon of professional efficacy here, sharon.

I think workfare is disgusting, especially for a company like Poundland or Tesco to make use of it. Obviously there's a job that needs doing if they take on people on workfare but they clearly don't want to pay. If you're made to do a weekend or a two days in the week perhaps fine for a bit of experience but longer than that is just free labour.

It's a bit different with a charity as they obviously can't pay you as they're trying to get money for their charity but I don't think they should be expecting anyone to work a 30 hour week and should refuse the job centre, like some have mentioned they have.

An unemployed friend volunteers at a charity. She's not allowed to do more than two days as the job centre says it'll affect her looking for paid work. She'd love to do more to fill the time up. Surprised your friend has to do 30 hours.

Unpaid internships etc should also be abolished and also zero contract hours. As someone said upthread, this seems to be what a job is now. I'm so glad I'm not looking for work now/starting a career. It scares me that anyone can lose a decent job/career and have to do these things.

I was made redundant once and of course was looking within my field for an income that was in line with my previous job so I could continue to meet my expenses such as nursery (£800) and mortgage (£900). Some idiot wanted me to immediately start a job in McDonald's! Absolutely no leeway about it. No idea that jobs at a certain level involve more than one interview often and can take months to set up. I was quite sharp with her as the immediate view is you're on benefits and you're scum. I dread to think how much worse it is now. It can happen to anyone, myself included.

You're not exactly selling yourself as a beacon of professional efficacy here, sharon. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, cruikshank. There was a statement made that teachers had chosen their job, and I was pointing out that no, that is not always the case.

sharon why would a reference for a work placement for a few weeks be worth more than a ref. from a job where they worked for 35 years. cos one reference isn't enough for anyone!

It costs to move house well, yeah, but I would question anyone's commitment to finding work if they are not prepared to move. it was an article of faith with older generations, you live where the work is, not expect it to happen the other way around.

I agree with you Annie. IMO the "charity" shop should have said. " No we don't want people here for 30 hours. It's far too long without any pay. I might expect it from greedy massive companies mentioning no names but certainly not a charity shop that is supposed to help the poor and the needy, not advocate cuts and by joining work fsre that's what they're doing.

Its not 1965 anymore sharon. Of course one reference is enough where hes held down the same job for 35 years.

a lot of the work is unstable and zero hours NO ONE can move for that Dont be so bloody stupid.