2yr olds tantrums controlling/impacting whole family :-(

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We've two ds, 4and 2. Our 2yr old is very bright, very articulate and extremely demanding. He seems so angry about everything unless getting his own way and the tantrums are now dominating family life, we avoid going certain places, avoid certain games, everything feels like hard work etc. He will kick off screaming at full volume if for example he suddenly decides he wants his brother toy, he will kick off if we don't watch want he wants if having a film off, he will kick off if he has not got exactly what he wants for dinner, he will scream blue murder at night and in the day, and whoever he is with. On the other hand he can be an absolute delight, he is loving, cuddly, tactile, sweet and funny. However currently his tantrums are dominating our family life and having a detrimental impact on our older son.
We try to distract him, we try to guide him round the issue, we acknowledge his upset and explain why we aren't doing what he wants, we offer choice etc. We ignore the tantrums but this doesn't seem to be lowering frequency. Any advice, I love my son dearly but he is pushing us all to the edge at the moment.

Will he let you set him up in an activity and then move away? Even if just to sit on the sofa at first, then go and put the kettle on or whatever .

Sirzy sometimes yes, sometimes no, totally depends on what mood he is in. If watching paw patrol for example he is happy as Larry, if in one of his moods though nothing will keep him occupied. If one on one he wants to be with you most the time

My husband was tested for ADHD when he was younger but they found nothing wrong with his attention, but did note that he seemed to take serious issue with authority. These days I'm sure he would have been diagnosed with ODD. I've shown him the list of symptoms and he agrees that's him, and STILL him honestly, and the only difference is he now has better impulse control and of course understands there are negative consequences to his actions. Most people just accept that's him though.

Here's the definition: www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/basics/definition/con-20024559

I would perhaps consider it to be something like this.

My DS whose nearly 6 now was completely the same and tbh still is very demanding and controlling. He's an only so I don't have the issue of it impacting on other children at home but he was just horrendous at 2-3.5 every single day. Some days he would be tantruming for 5+ lots of an hour each time over nothing really. He would wake up having a tantrum day after day.

I did use a time out step but it didn't really help as he'd get even angrier at being on it but couldn't calm himself down so it would just prolong the tantrum. As he got a bit older, very simple words like 'this is not a choice' did help and making sure he was looking at me when I spoke to him. He is generally better now but because we are very clear what he can choose and what is not for him to be in charge of.

But I'm sorry to say, a lot of it just his temperament. My DB was the same as a child and everything was dictated by his moods, and his DD is also exactly the same and completely rules over her older brother.

Possibly controversial, but this is why my two year old is still in a cot (cot bed with sides up). When she kicks off I carry her to her cot and place her there with her blanket that she sucks for comfort. I leave the door open and turn light on to distinguish it from bed time. She is only two and a third, but I tell her "Mummy will come back when you've stopped fussing" and I leave. She continues for a short while, then calls "I've stopped fussing" in a totally normal voice. I go get her and she's as happy as Larry. I've been consistent. I don't accept tantrums, though I understand why they happen. Any pussy footing around her makes her much worse. If we try to give her options, console her, or anything of the sort she gets even more out of control. I think that's the key. I believe she is needing, at that point, to be taken control of, if that makes sense. She needs to feel safe and secure in the fact that there is an adult around who will not allow her to continue to lose control.
All children are different and this works for us, but I do strongly believe that they need firm boundaries. Consistency is the key, for sure.

Hmm... DD has thrown some pretty epic tantrums. Though really, she is an easy child.

What helped me most was to not take them personally and understand she was communicating her frustration the only way she knew how. It seems like a no brainer on paper. But.. knowing this helped me relax about it when she kicked off in a store or at a restaurant. When I was frustrated about it, it just helped escalate the situation instead of diffusing it.

I'd rub her back and say something like "I know you're frustrated about X, but the answer is still no" and then "I know, no one likes being told no. Now take a breath. Just breath"... and repeat like a mantra until she stops. Normally me talking and rubbing her back distracts her enough to calm down. I never punish her for them though, I don't want her to think tantrums get her anymore attention than any other way of communicating.

It does help to have a sense of humor about it. She screamed until her face turned red at her teddy bear tonight god knows why. I just acted concerned and did something like "Oh my goodnesss! What did Mr. Bear do? Mr. Bear, you need to behave or you're going to time out." Then a firm stare at him. When DD screamed again, I just gave him a very firm "Ok, Mr. Bear. DD told you to do something and you didn't listen. Time out for you." And had DD put him in time out, which she found quite comical and it distracted her enough to start laughing and telling poor Mr. Bear "No no!". Sometimes, you just have to roll with these things to help you keep a level head about it your child calm down from the outburst.

It's not the same thing I know OP but at times when one of my three kids was a toddler (or under 5) and they got themselves into an emotional state that they couldn't seem to come down from I would run them a bath. I would stick them i warm water anytime of day if really necessary and sit in the bathroom while they played and calmed down.

Obviously this is not appropriate for 8 tantrums a day, but if you are all exhausted it can help change the mood. It is hard when they are only two. I would definitely give the attention to the child who is behaving appropriately -i.e. older child as much as possible. Try to respond as calmly as possible and be boring. Be most fun around a child who is cooperating.

Things I notice with my tantrum prone DS, he's almost always doing it because he wants his own way or he has 'gone beyond a nap'. Cutting molars also reduces his levels of patience.

I put him in time out, we've gone past explaining he knows it's wrong. So it's 2 minutes of a time out strop alone somewhere safe, get down to his level and ask him if he's sorry, because usually he's clobbered his sister, me, or throw his food. 9 times out of 10 he will say sorry and we ignore the episode. The rest of the time he will smirk and giggle and think the whole time out thing is a game. Which is fine because he can go back in time out to continue his attention seeking strop and I will continue to not let him have his own way until he relents. Don't let them see they are getting to you or they will ground you down further until you give in!

I also wonder if his routine might be the problem, are all caregivers consistent with their approach to your DS? Are you sure no one is pandering to a tantrum for a quiet life. At weekends when DH is here I still manage the routine because I have found that when DH runs the timetable the kids are thrown off course and things can escalate quickly. So I make sure meals and nap times are adhered to, but everything else DH does. DH didn't want to do it 'my way' but as I care for them all week, my way is what they are used to. If adults are not consistent in their approach then tantrums will happen.

He really does sound like my son.

Ds is fine if you are in the room. If you go make a coffee he is there demanding your attention.

But it has got better in the last year. He does play alone or keep himself occupied.

The other day he was upset and sent himself to his room and said 'I am going to my room until I calm down' we have never sent him to his room and so I just laughed.

5 minutes later he was back and his happy self. It was a signal to me that he is learning to manage his behaviour.

The tantrums when we have to leave somewhere like soft play have stopped as well.

Ds is very picky with food. He is getting better but his diet is limited so we give him daily vitamins with omega oils. Dh reminded me last night that we did see an improvement in his behaviour when he started taking these.

Nothing worked for dd2. She climb ed over stair gates and wouldn't stay on steps. She was too heavy and flailing to manhandle. I just used to sit nearby and wait for it to end

She didn't stop until she started school. But then it literally stopped over night

I have two ds, 8 and 4. The 4 yr old was very like this so this summer we decided to start him in play therapy. It seems like overkill to most people as he is also a loving, lovely child. He is not off the wall or anything extreme but we have other life stuff going on and really felt we needed help. WE needed help, another adult that could get involved and give us ideas and a new perspective. It has been amazing and it could be him just getting bigger or whatever but it has helped so much. A big part I think is him having that weekly space where someone gives him total attention and control. It helps him sift and sort through the week's feelings and 'reset'. He really enjoys it. But the other major thing came from our very first meeting with the therapist who really made us reflect on our parenting style which, like most people, was developed in line with the needs of our firstborn who is a totally different child. I agree completely with thickgit. We gave options and in general pussyfooted around when what he needed were firm (loving) limits. It makes him feel more secure undoubtedly.
It is such hard work with a strong willed child and it will get better but only if you sort it. I know so many people with one difficult kid, like mine, and they just accept and adapt and at 5,6,7 they are just as hard. That is what made me go to this therapist. I thought I just couldnt cope if he is still like this at 8!!

Such a hard age...my daughter 3 and a half and she is sooo much better now.

What used to help me (still does) was when she kicks off, I put her upstairs where there is a stair gate. So by the time she came back downstairs she was in a better mood. Ignoring them at that age doesn't work, you need to discipline.

Actually my DD would have liked my full and undivided attention. She was an only child when these tantrums started so didn't even have to share attention at the beginning. She would get so angry so quickly that no amount of gentle soothing or I understand, etc would have any impact. Some children are just like that. She'd also managed to climb out of her cot by 20 months, despite our best efforts, so leaving her in there wasn't an option either. She had a good routine and excellent diet but she does have a very strong personality and I still see flickers of that two year old (she's 21!) and a glint of determination in her eyes.

If you're at home just make sure you put him in a safe place when he kicks off which will give you a five minute breather. The constant tantrumming is exhausting for you - take one day at a time. I'd like to say avoid triggers but generally there aren't any!

Is he able to communicate? At 2 my brother couldn't (late developer) and used to get really frustrated with everything, so mum effectively had to treat him like a much younger child and that meant not even attempting to discipline him until he turned 3.

Thanks all, spacey communication definitely not an issue, he has a huge vocab and easily articulates his views, it is if you disagree with these there was s a problem!!
On all other counts he is wonderful, he can play beautifully, he can share, he can be kind, thoughtful, even empathetic but that's mixed in with being as stubborn and determined as hell! I have to admit, I am not entirely dissimilar... I have strong views and opinions and defend them to the hilt, hopefully in a kind, balanced and positive way.. But I do see so much of me in him!

Okay I know this is all normal, but it's worth a checklist.
Are the tantrums because he is overtired? Hungry?
Does he get more attention by having tantrum (eg you give attention to ds1, he has tantrum, he gets attention back on him)
Does he get positive attention/ rewards for not having tantrums? eg Thank you, ds2 for not making a fuss in the supermarket today. Now we can go to the park...

he sounds a bright and articulate lad. If you make sure that you never ever give in to a tantrum (but frequently agree to polite requests) he will probably adjust to what gives the best result.

I sympathise. I have a nearly 4 year old whois incredibly demanding and i cant take anywhere. He is 2nd born. Im currently slightly tipsy to get through bath time screaming.!

(I should add my dh is doing the bThtime routine. Im snoozing off the booze).