to think they wouldn't be here ALL the time?

[winkywinkola]

So we've got a couple of lodgers. They're very nice - a young couple.

They're students but also told me they have part time jobs.

Turns out one has a job in a bar one night a week. The other tutors a child in English once a week. Okay, more fool me for not getting more details. No problem with paying the rent.

But they are here all the time. In the kitchen. Working on whatever assignment they've got. They never go into university, they just work in the kitchen.

I work from home in my kitchen too. It's starting to get on my nerves.

They have a double ensuite room with a large desk big enough for two. The room is warm and light.

Aibu?

They are treating it like a flat share instead of a lodging situation and I do think the two are different. No way should the op work in her room and let the students take over her kitchen.

Basically if you decide to accept money from people then why shouldn't they be able to work from the kitchen? Maybe put a desk in your bedroom and you work from there?

Because it's her house??!!! Why should she skulk off to her room, she is not the lodger

"winkywinkola" are your lodgers on a proper legal footing with a contract etc? have your told your mortgage company and insurances? I have asked this already and you have decided not to answer this.

my point in asking is that if it is all informal and neither your mortgage nor your house insurance know, then if you ask this couple not to use the common areas and they get arsey they could ring up said mortgage and insurance companies and dob you in. that's certainly what I would do if I were in their shoes.

Some of the responses on here is why I hated being a lodger.

They must be incredibly insensitive if they can see that you work in the kitchen, to come in and sit down in there all day as well! When they have a desk! They may technically have a right to "use the kitchen" yes, but anyone with half a brain would work out it was your workspace and leave you alone. I'd be really upset. I work at home too, and when we've had people stay/lodge in the past I have told them I need to be left alone during the day. Some have still ignored me but that's another story! (I think some people really can't grasp that you want to be alone, it's always the more the merrier for them...)

I think you do have every right to tell them the kitchen is your work space and you gave them a desk so they could use that. Awkward though. for you.

OP doesn't really have a leg to stand on if this is an informal arrangement though. its open to interpretation as others have said and posted already. some think it means room only others sort of a house share.

mummymeister, "that's certainly what I would do if I were in their shoes."

You sound absolutely lovely, darling. Because someone asked you not be around ALL the time because you'd rented a room not the kitchen, you'd try and get that person in as much trouble as possible? That makes you a really special person.

We are mortgage free. We have a simple agreement drawn up about when rent is due in the month, how much, deposit, what notice they need to give, what areas they are allowed to use.

However, a kitchen is a kitchen. It didn't actually occur to me that I have to specify times they can use it.

I don't think it's fair to the lodgers to re-negotiate the times they can use the kitchen for food prep, but having a word and being clear about expectations is certainly worth it. They may be quite young and just a bit oblivious.

The OP hasn't said that she has an informal arrangement. PP are assuming that she doesn't have a formal arrangement, not informed the mortgage company; and doesn't have proper insurance.

Whilst that might be suspected/assumed because OP is asking how to deal with the 9-5 situation in her kitchen, that is not necessarily so.

The OP has said she will speak to the lodgers in a couple of days (and I like the idea of a 'how is it going for you/me' chat that was suggested).

iwant and others, I've looked at and lodged in plenty of places in the past and, often, it is indeed the case that the rent and agreement includes your own bedroom and your own or a shared bathroom, and either your own mini-kitchen or use of the shared kitchen, sometimes at agreed/scheduled times.

Plenty of people asking for lodgers specify that they have or don't have use of the living room or of the kitchen other than preparing food. It's not 'just on Mumsnet' at all.

@ the person who'd 'dob someone in' for a clarification of the house rules. Jesus - what the hell kind of person are you mummymeister?

sadwidow it's a side point but I can't see why the OP would have to inform their mortgage company. She has lodgers, not tenants. If she were to rent out her property on an AST she would require consent to let.

Same for the house insurance. Worth phoning them up because they might want to know about the number of people living in the property, but no reason to change it.

OP, I've rented a room in the past. My bedroom was tiny. I couldn't have spent all mu time in there. But I would never work in the lounge when the landlady was at home.

Just speak to them. If they have a desk in their room they should work there. Or go to uni to work. I can see why you are annoyed.

It sounds like they've misunderstood how this house share situation is supposed to work. I'm sure there's no malice in it. Just speak to them like an adult and admit it's really bothering you and could they work in their room.

First of all, ignore Brewsters. A lodger isn't entitled to unlimited access to rest of the house. They are renting a room. I have lodgers and make it very clear at 'interview/viewing' that this is a room rental, not a house share. I think you need to face the problem head-on. Your lodgers may have come from a house share and have different expectations. I'd have a polite conversation with them saying it's fine for them to have use of kitchen for cooking, but that it's not a hanging out space. (My lodgers also don't have use of my living room either.) If they don't like it, they can go and find a house-share. YANBU.

Are they first year students?

If so, it's probably their first time away from home and they haven't differentiated between being in your house as a lodger and being at home, with different rules and expectations.

I'd have a gentle word with them with respect to sharing of facilities. Often Universities provide students with an outline of what they should/should not expect from landlords/ladies when they move in as a lodger. If you've not given any explicit rules, it might be worth checking what guidance has been given by the University and remind them of this.

It's unlikely they are doing it to be awkward, but rather out of naivety and expecting your rules to be the same as mum and dad. Address it directly, rather than via hints before any resentment starts building up and things escalate.

Basically if you decide to accept money from people then why shouldn't they be able to work from the kitchen?

Because what they are paying for is reasonable use of the kitchen for normal purposes, i.e. food preparation and clearing, eating the food at the kitchen table, and maybe washing if the washing machine is in there. Working in there all day isn't reasonable use. The fact that a desk has been provided in their room clearly indicates that the expectation is that they work there.

However, OP, I would say that equally you can't necessarily expect exclusive use of the kitchen - isn't it a nuisance for you if you're trying to work and the lodgers are constantly coming down to make tea and prepare meals? And if they're preparing something that takes time and space (e.g. making and icing a celebration cake), wouldn't it be reasonable to vacate anyway?

I think you need to talk to them about reasonable use of what they're paying for and spell out that that means using their bedroom for work. If there's some specific reason why that's problematic for all assignments, work out a compromise. I absolutely agree that it's ridiculous for you to have to hide yourself away in your bedroom to work, but can one of you not use, say, a sitting room some of the time? And once you've worked something out, get it in writing and signed.

House insurance may be invalid if you have lodgers and haven't told them. Standard insurance just usually covers family members.

But some people are entitled! If they rent a room from you, it absolutely must include everything and access all areas, at all times, regardless of the rest of the household's needs!

Piffle.

Alternatively OP, put the rent up to cover the use of more of the space. If they are using the kitchen ALL DAY then it's perfectly acceptable to expect them to pay for that privilege.

Cleaty - if you hated being a lodger because you didn't get free run of the owner's house/sofa/kitchen, you always had the option to take on a joint lease or mortgage with someone and take responsibility for things.
Lodger = no bills, no council tax, no cleaning rota, no responsibility if domestic applicances break, etc.
House-share = equal split of ALL outgoings, joint responsibility for cleaning, household repairs, etc.
One costs considerably more than the other. You pays your money etc...

There are certainly, in my experience, a wide range of different conventions about lodgers and the use of communal space - some specify times etc, some allow kitchen use, but not living room, some specify the number of nights a week a lodger stays over (various long-commuting academic friends have part-time lodging arrangements where they spend a few nights midweek lodging near the workplace, and arrangements might specify no staying at weekends unless by special arrangements etc - obviously the cost is less) etc. Definitely not a Mn thing.

The other thing that occurs to me, OP, is that it's very likely (unless you told them before they came to live with you) that they assumed you worked elsewhere during the day, too, so they are also a bit taken aback that you are in the house/flat in the daytime. It's perfectly possible it's a complete misunderstanding, and that a quiet word will sort it out. If it's a deal-breaker for them, they will find somewhere else, and you can be more upfront with the next people.

My first thought was Magrat's (nice middle name you have there!) They're students. They'll be treating you like a substitute mum. Neither their fault, nor yours. Just ask them to use the desk in their room :) Or the living room, if it's suitable?

*winkywinkola" if working in the kitchen is something you have to do 9 - 5 then why wasn't this in the simple rental agreement you had with them? they cannot be expected to know this. its up to you to be explicit about what you expect of them. if they couldn't manage without the kitchen (the room was small, they need to spread out, whatever else) then if they knew from the outset it was out of bounds during these times (except for meal prep obviously) then they could judge then if this was the right place for them. simple agreements with little detail in them lead to these problems and whilst you might have been ok in the past my experience of having contracts with people is that you do actually have to spell out the bleeding obvious to them about what is and is not included.

"twosmellydogs" I am the sort of person who spent over 20 years of their working life dealing with neighbourhood disagreements and know how nasty things can get and how easily they escalate. I could write a book on the number of neighbour disputes that start with "we find their pond fountain annoying" and end up with hammers through car windows all in a very short space of time.

if something is that important that it has to be done or abided with then you have to put it in writing. verbal isn't good enough and neither are assumptions.

in the situation now that you are in with them actually being there your only option is to sit them down and explain explicitly what rental of a room means. I am sure you will be able to do this in a kindly way, darling!

If there were restrictions on when or how much I could use shared areas of the house I was paying to live in, I would expect to be told these before I moved in. I'd be a bit irritated if it was raised after I'd been there for a while, but not to the extent that I'd get huffy about it- unless they were unreasonable restrictions of course, in which case I'd move. In this situation the restrictions do sound reasonable though!

Thanks, Garlick. I know it's technically spelled wrong, but the correct version was already taken when I chose my original, but not dissimilar username.

What siege said. As a student I had a lodging arrangement that consisted of a self-contained area plus use of bathroom across the landing, except when landlady's family were visiting 3-5 times a year and I was to use a bathroom elsewhere in the house. I also couldn't vacuum / make a racket at certain hours as landlady was a psychotherapist working at home. Nothing wrong or illegal in any of this, as long as you know upfront what's included in your arrangement.