How late is too late to play the piano in the evening?

[Laureline]

I went to see my neighbours a couple of times when they were playing (or rather practicing) the piano at 9:30PM (once was 11PM).

We live in a row of old terraced houses, the piano is against the shared wall of our living rooms, so we hear everything when it is being played. I can't watch a film or work, it's too distracting, and you hear it on the first floor etc.

I don't enjoy the piano particulalry anyway, but tolerate it during the day as I understand children need to practice to get better.

But I really do mind after 9:30PM. During the week I work late, so hearing "the Sugar Plum Fairy" being practiced at 9:45PM isn't my idea of relaxation.

The father thinks it's a perfectly ok time, and since his kid is out all Saturday, then he has to practice at 9:30PM. I think it's their issue if they don't organise practice time at reasonnable hours for their children, not mine.

Am I being unreasonnable? Seriously, the father seems really offended that I ask they not play after 9:30Pm.
I'm resenting having to go over to their place at night and passing (in their eyes) for a sort of crazed-mean-to-kids person. The boys seem lovely people, but I just want to enjoy some peace and quiet in the evening. We are quiet ourselves and don't play loud music or TV.

COMPLETELY feel for you. My NDN's kids are loads younger, and we live in a town house (so 3 floors). Their piano is on the ground floor (but next to our adjoining wall), our bedroom in on the top floor, but when they practice the piano (7 am or earlier on weekends) it's as if it's being played next to our ears.

We have told them. Nothing's changed.

I put the radio on and put it next to the wall.

It's all about give and take!!!!!

I feel for you OP.

Our ndn's son used to play the drums regularly at 9.30-10.30 everyday. And he was pants at it

It only stopped when dh had had enough and went round in a fury. I genuinely think they hadn't realised how loud it was.

I did a thread about this exact same thing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1585649-Piano-playing

He now stops at 11. God it pisses me off.

When I lived in a flat my cut off time for noise was 10pm and not before 9am. I am talking washing machine, hoovering. I never had complaints and would have done jobs earlier if asked by any of my neighbours.

If it disturbs you to the extent you describe then your neighbours are being unreasonable. Definitely get your neighbour over to hear how much of an interference it is for you. Possibly he does not realise how bad it is.

Thanks all for your thoughts. Right now it's 11:50 AM and no piano has been played all morning, so I really don't get their schedules for pratice. They could play during the day and we'd say nothing! Why do they have to practice in the evening (and by evening I mean after 8PM)?

The father seems to have interpreted my coming over some time ago to protest at 11PM as meaning "she's ok with piano until 11", which is not at all what I had meant (I just couldn't take it anymore and dragged myself out of bed, as our bedroom is above the piano wall) and somehow now I'm the one reneging on a deal - a deal that absolutely never happened in the first place!

Interesting to read most people consider 8PM as the cut-off point.

I used to live downstairs from a piano teacher. It was lovely when he was playing himself or had a star pupil. It was grim when it was a rank beginner bashing out scales.

Our piano is on a shared wall but DS usually practices on his electric piano upstairs using headphones.

Our neighbours are lovely, the once asked him to play louder as they were enjoying it.

Proper pianos are meant to be against internal walls but if it's electronic then it doesn't need to be.

I play but I don't bother at that time usually. Some people find it very relaxing to do so I can understand why it might be something they do in the evening. Is it against your lounge wall? To be honest if you have your TV on and can still hear it etc I would get them to come around and listen themselves, they might just not 'get it' until they hear.

Def not after 9pm. We don't practice before 7am week days (as I know neighbours get up then) or 9am at weekends.

I tell my drumming, trumpeting and saxophone players that 9 pm is the latest

I think your neighbour is incredibly selfish.

I also think with any noise from a neighbour what they don't appreciate is they are in control of it and you are not. So you are on tender hooks waiting and wondering if it's going to start. So even when no noise you are on edge.

The noise abatement rules and regs really need an overhaul.

We have piano and violin and drums here. Violin and drums (electric kit) are practised in rooms away from the party wall.

YANBU

We have a house full of live music most days, multiple instruments, but never after 8pm.
Our adjoined neighbour has been fantastic even when dd was just starting and it sounded quite awful.
Anything else to me would be taking the piss, we are always thankful for the support and encouragement he gives dd, he's a lovely man.
However, I'm pretty sure if we took the piss he wouldn't be so accommodating.

9.30pm is late. As a one-off because, I don't know, the child is taking his/her Grade xxx next week and needs to nail a dodgy scale, sure. But not to be taken for granted.
I would ask firmly if an eight o'clock curfew could be set.
I would also suggest to them that they consider the merits of an electronic keyboard in addition to a piano, as practising on a silent keyboard is totally brilliant. (Because you can't hear whether or not you've hit the wrong key, so you have to think very hard about whether you're hitting the right key. Completely different type of practice, and very valuable.)

If there aren't children next door, my personal feeling for cut off would be 10pm. If the neighbour politely asked me to stop at 9.30 I would apologise and do so.

"If there aren't children next door, my personal feeling for cut off would be 10pm."

We have a 5 year old that we try to convince to go to bed at 8PM.

I have a teenager who plays piano, sax and guitar. We have a "no saxophone" rule before 11am at weekends, and after about 8pm, even though her room isn't directly on the party wall.

She has an electric piano and acoustic guitar which she plays anytime she wants as long as she keeps the sound level low - if we can't hear it from the living room then I doubt the neighbours hear anything.

So YANBU - 9.30pm is perfectly reasonable (if not positively generous) in a terraced house.

I agree - pianos should not be against shared walls unless there is no way round it. I think playing much after 8.30 pm, or continuing for longer than 20 mins (unless you are very good), is pretty selfish if you know that it is fairly loud next door. DH and I often go to bed just after 9 pm...

We've got an electric piano now (even though we are detached) as I find hearing anyone practise, even my own children, is pretty excruciating if it goes on too long. I also feel happier going over one part again and again if I know no one can hear. I was pretty against getting one to start with but I'm very impressed with it and we all practise more as a result now. DH also has a real drum set and an electric one for the same reason, same with guitars.

If you live in a semi/terraced and you want to practise for long periods of time/later than 8 pm/earlier than 9 am then the most considerate thing to do would be to get an electric piano for most practising IMO. Your neighbour is selfish.

Laureline, hence the 'if there aren't children next door'.

"Laureline, hence the 'if there aren't children next door'."

I must admit I didn't mention her in my first post because I tend to think that even if someone doesn't have a child, they should still be able to expect to enjoy some quite time in their home in the evening.

"quiet" not "quite", argh.

I didn't see your first post, Laureline, or if I did, I don't remember the name on it. I don't think anyone on the thread denies that everyone deserves quiet time, the question is from what time onwards. When it's adults only, my personal feeling is that 10pm onwards is reasonable, but if my neighbour had an issue with that, I'm sure we could come to some sort of adult compromise.

Children make noise that your neighbours have to put up with as well.

...that's why we have an electronic one...

but generally, past 9pm is too late for anything louder than a normsl conversation.

As a piano teacher I'm obviously biased, but I can nevertheless see the issue. Electric pianos (not the same as electric keyboards, which are generally smaller), are getting more and more affordable and indistinguishable from acoustic pianos in terms of their feel and sound. So there IS a solution, even for serious musicians who would prefer to play on a good quality acoustic.

I would be mortified if someone complained about my playing, though in all fairness I have been lucky enough to have neighbours who enjoy it. Not everybody does and those of us who love classical music do need to respect that.

If they're shit then 6.
Just buy thyself a banjo.

We try to finish practice by 8. It is an electronic piano so the volume can be turned down, I don't blame the neighbors for not wanting 12 renditions of badly played Fur Elise at 9 pm.