With this cyclist

[HopsNim]

Genuine thread, not cyclist bashing.

New driver here

Pulled up at zebra crossing, once person had finished crossing, I pulled off again. Cyclist appeared on my left (seemingly out of nowhere but I should have seen him) and overtook me as I pulled off. Bashed on my window and yelled aggressively "hey get over"

So am thinking I somehow veered at little into his path as I pulled off (but don't recall doing). If all happened very quickly. there wasn't a cycle lane

Can someone more experienced please talk me through what I did wrong, how serious was it and how I can make sure I don't do it again

Thank you

'The car' doesn't automatically get the benefit of the doubt - I'm a cyclist too and so I just don't do that. But in this case, given the information we have, the OP gets the benefit of the doubt because she didn't do anything wrong.

Even what feels like a small veer when you're driving can be scary for the cyclist (you don't know if the veer will stop- I've been pushed into parked cars and the kerb before). They probably overreacted, but sometimes if you've had a scare, that's what happens. Chalk it up as a learning point. Reflecting on it shows you're a careful person.

From what you've said I don't think you were in the wrong. But given how many near misses DH has when he's on his bike (from drivers not looking where they're going/checking mirrors etc) I always, always check all mirrors before setting off from stationary. Just in case.

If you are stopped at a zebra crossing neither a car, nor a bike, nor a motorbike should try to under/overtake you. They should wait behind until you move.

But what should happen and the reality are different. Do check your mirrors (and over your shoulder just to be sure). You'll probably know if a cyclist was some way behind you anyway, so should be aware that they might catch you up.

I really wish cyclists wouldn't undertake (sorry lawfully filter) - it is so dangerous and as someone said, the cause of many a fatal collision.

it is so dangerous and as someone said, the cause of many a fatal collision

And the someone who said it has admitted that they are aware that in approximately 2/3 of collisions involving cyclists, the driver is at fault (DfT stats). It's easy to blame cyclists and easy to say "I saw a cyclist do XYZ therefore if they get hit it's their fault" and rather more difficult to stop and think about what is actually going on.

IMO it would be far better if cyclists had separate, dedicated space as they do in many other European cities. In the absence of that they will share the roads. That gives them various choices, none of them great. You can stay to the left and just use it as another lane, either going faster or slower than the surrounding traffic. If you're going faster, you do have to watch for cars pulling over or turning left. Or you can adopt primary position but few drivers understand what you're doing and many whinge about cyclists "in the middle of the road". Even the most hardened vehicular cyclist would probably admit it's better to take primary only when you can keep up with the other traffic. Or you can go to the right and overtake, which has its own dangers.

If I wanted to sit in a queue of traffic, I'd buy a car. Since I don't want to do that, in crowded towns and cities, which are made less crowded by the use of bikes, I will go past cars. I'm careful how I do this. We all just need to be aware of each other.

I'm also a new driver,ived developed a hatred of most joggers (running in the dark along country roads in the dark), cyclists (no lights, black clothes, same roads) and roundabouts (ffs indicate people.....correctly!)
Rant over!

Gabilan, I didn't 'admit' anything. It was a statement of fact that I am well aware of. The fact that most of the time an accident isn't the cyclists fault doesn't mean that sometimes they don't do stupid things. And in my experience (also shown sadly by a number of deaths recently) cyclists attempting to filter through on the left, especially coming up to junctions, is one of the most dangerous things we can do.

I am also well aware that it is themselves they are primarily putting in danger rather than the driver. But seeing as the op is concerned that she did something wrong it is only fair to point out that, based on what she has said, she didn't in fact do anything wrong.

Ok (clearly overthinking here) ive been discussing it tonight with DP step by step and having done so I think it's unlikely I did actually veer into his path. DP thinks he was simply annoyed that I did not leave him enough space to pass on the left and he was in a hurry. If so, that surely is unreasonable of the cyclist isn't it?

(DP says it was unreasonable of me, apparently he always leaves enough room on left for cyclists to pass)

You are so overthinking, stoppit.

You didn't know he was there so you obviously didn't check your mirror. Motorcyclists get knocked off all the time because people don't check their mirrors before changing lanes and don't realise there is a motorbike filtering completely legally. Similar thing. Cyclists will often pass on your left and you need to look for them.
These things come with experience and no one was hurt so don't beat yourself up about it.

imo the filtering and passing on left rules and laws need a rethink on today's roads - road systems are much more complex and there is a lot more traffic than even 20 yeara ago let alone when the highway code was written - and any advances made wihin it have not kept up with the changes on our roads.

particularly when it is dusk or dark the passing on left and filtering should be illegal - try looking in you wing mirrors in the dark and rain in a traffic queue - that tiny light pottering up the left of you is easy to miss and the motorcycle filtering on the right can really blend in to the many lights behind you - especially if the road bends to your rear right iyswim. the rules need revisiting imo.

there was one of the cases of the cyclist being killed in london by a lorry she was undertaking - the report said there was possibly only a 2 second window for the driver to have seen her - but that 2 seconds might be the point he checked his other mirror etc etc - you can't avoid what you can't see and only being human with one brain and 2 eyes it is not possible to see everything - the law should address this and cyclists consider this before undertaking or filtering - if traffic is about to move off he should imo have anticipated this and not performed the undertaking move as much as the op should have double checked.

You said in OP that he overtook you as you pulled off. You probably just frightened him by pulling away while he was close next to you.

Forget arguing with yourself about fault. No-one was hurt - good.

you are in a car, people on bikes are vulnerable to you - check always, check often.

you do not want to run someone down and hurt them even if you can 100% claim they are at fault if you could have done something to stop it.

Learn that you need to look and look again when pulling off and turning. There are suicidal idiots out there, your job is to make sure you do not facilitate their death wish.

Thanks good advice all

accusing cyclists of undertaking when a car speeds up to get to the intersection before the cyclist, who is then trapped in the 'lane' s/he was in first, reminds me of the truck that crept up at the red light as i was poised waiting for the green ; the driver saw an'opportunity' and wheeked around the corner, hitting me with the giant mirror. I was wearing a helmet but felt partially stunned. I saw that he was parked illegally a block further so I took out my phone and took photos of them and the vehicle and called the police. They stared at me as if to say they cd not beleive what i was doing, got back in the truck and took off. All cyclists shd wear helmet cams as it will show who did what.OP you protest too much.

amarmai, who is accusing cyclists of doing that? And why does the OP protest too much?

I only passed my test a couple of years ago.

It's a myth that people aren't taught to look over their shoulders anymore. In fact, I had it drilled into me and it is an absolute must when pulling off or changing lanes.

IME, a lot of experienced drivers I get into cars with don't bother doing it. I always do it, as do the two people I've been in a car with recently who are newish drivers.

OP, please don't fret about it. It sounds like you did nothing wrong in essence. It's a good learning point though. Always, always, always keep an eye on your mirrors while in stationary traffic. If the road is about to turn or curve in a certain direction always, always, always check that wing mirror for bikes and motorcycles the same as you would if you were turning into a side road.

Ultimately, a cyclist is always more vulnerable than you are and whether they behave like a wazzock or not, in a collision they will always come off worse.

When you're new to driving, it's so easy to worry about every little thing but actually, it's this awareness and reflection which makes you a better driver. Don't punish yourself. Just accept that a cyclist made a hasty and unwise decision today but you can choose to use his foolishness as a useful lesson for your future journeys.

I wish it could be compulsory for cyclists to sit a driving test. Then those who have no idea of what it looks like from the driving seat of a motor vehicle might realise how difficult it is to look in all directions at once, especially in poor lighting conditions. In particular, when there are reflections of many headlamps and street lights flickering in the wing mirrors, being aware of a cyclist approaching from behind at night can be almost impossible.

My gut instinct is that if you compared the likelihood of being involved in a collision between cyclists who have had motor vehicle driving experience and those who have not, the ones who are used to driving would be much less vulnerable than the ones who haven't.

I wish it was compulsory for all drivers to sit a Cycling Proficiency test but there we are, it is what it is.

Alpaca, or, given that cyclists are mainly vulnerable due to cars, drivers should be made to do a decent amount of cycling? Especially as the majority of accidents involving bikes are due to the driver not the cyclist.

Raxa, I think you are overemphasising things. Yes, when pulling out from stationary (say if parked on the side of the road), or changing lanes you should absolutely be checking behind you. But if you start checking at say junctions, when you are already checking traffic coming from two directions, it would be dangerous to start looking over both shoulders too. Generally being aware of what is going on is good absolutely.

If you stopped at a zebra crossing why is the cyclist coming past you as surely he or she needs to stop to. Thank you for stopping by the way as where i live no one seems to stop anymore and dh and i have always been run over several times.

The op says she was pulling away.

Most some cyclists are complete morons with a massive chip of their shoulders about drivers
Ever occur to you that a lot of cyclists are ALSO drivers?

'undertake' is used 5 times on the last page alone,all in connection with blaming cyclists. Belief in what someone says they did or didn't do is a choice. Love to see a thread that comforts a cyclist who has been hit far less a near miss. Not on mn eh? Here we get 4 pages thus far telling op she did nothing wrong - funny her dh says she did!

Why does OP's DH have a monopoly on correctness, amarmai? And why should MNers say that overtaking on the inside is OK when it isn't?