To feel cross at my child's school?

[Mavey9]

I'll try to keep it brief. School runs various drawing competitions throughout the year. In reception a child I shall call 'Jane' won the Christmas card drawing competition which involved 60 kids. Fine, no probs. Fast forward to year 1, and 'Jane' wins the drawing competition for a school bench. Then within a few weeks 'Jane' also wins the drawing competition to design a label for something the school is selling. This means she has won all the drawing competitions, nobody else. My gripe isn't to do with my child not winning (as she didn't actually enter the competitions in year 1 as we had a lot going on at that time), but is more to do with the the fact there are 59 other children in the year group, who surely deserve a bit of a chance, and some are understandably starting to say there's no point entering a competition as 'Jane' will win it. They might be only 5 or 6 but they can sense unfairness when they see it. They should be encouraging trying and not making the kids think things are rigged before they even start. I should also add 'Jane' is not lacking in confidence or in need of a boost in any way; plenty others are however and it would do them good to win something. Do you think it's reasonable to voice my concerns about this with the school? I know I could come across as neurotic but it just seems wrong to me? Thanks.

OP you are right up to a point. I never got a prize at school for anything, and even when I tried I got nothing. At the time I thought there was no point in trying and eventually gave up (for a while).

As an adult though though I can say my self confidence isn't based on my achievements or what I plan to achieve - it is based on accepting myself with flaws and all, so you see I got over it and I am better if for it. My sister on the other hand, with all the accolades, definitely isn't better of for it.

I suppose it depends on if there is an obvious talent there - that is miles and miles ahead of everyone else or not.

If there is then I guess the school is a bit stuck.

I went to a small primary school with someone who was very good at drawing - by time she got to secondary and there was a wider pool of talent she wasn't really that special.

I think it did put many of us off as we were obviously much worse perhaps sooner than it might have done otherwise - but there were plenty of opportunities for us to excel or not in other areas.

I think the girl in question, a lovely girl with no push parents, actually found it harder long term after thinking she was special in that area at primary to find in a bigger pond she wasn't.

I hate the proliferation of competitions in schools. It is a cheap, easy, and phony way to generate interest in something like art, music, or creative writing. It backfires as it is discouraging, unfair, and most importantly has absolutely nothing to do with art, music, or writing.

Schools should inspire, challenge, and encourage children and I feel that these competitions do the opposite.

Sometimes there is a child who does have artistic flair from an early age.
I remember dd1 drawing alongside a younger child when she was about 5yo, other child was about 3yo. What the other child drew was out of this world. Yes, I probably could have produced something similar with time and effort, but not much better.

And also she may have a better grasp of the sort of design needed. There used to be a weekly competition in our local paper. I entered for years and didn't win ever. They did a variety of competitions and drawing was one that came up around once ever couple of months.

Then I noticed that the pictures that won were actually quite basic, clear outlines. Obviously so they could put them in the local paper to show the designs. After that I drew like that and, despite my lack of natural drawing skills, won almost every time I entered.

They may have judged it blind, or used different people to judge too.

I remember my dc between them won the craft competition 3 years running at the summer fair. One year it did look amazing as they'd had a really good idea, and I looked at the entries and thought they stood a good chance at getting something. The second year I would have put them well down the list as I thought theirs was too simple, and the third year was good but not outstanding, thought they stood a chance at placing but not winning.

They were judged by a local dignitary who didn't know the children at all, just they were lucky to hit the style they liked. The second year the chap went for all very simple designs, and the third year again the judge chose 3 designs very similar to dd's.

The other thing that I reckoned mine always had going for them was that they clearly had done it themselves. Some children turned up with immaculate pieces that clearly they hadn't been allowed within 15 paces when they were being made.
It may be that some of the other good artists have parents that can't resist making it perfect before handing it in, so they get eliminated on that basis.

If Janes picture is the best, then not allowing Jane to win because it gets the hackles up of other parents would be unfair to Jane imo. There often various little things going on, at dds school there's house point charts, star of the week, out of school achievements are celebrated in school and I think it's difficult if teachers have to keep track of who is winning what. Also it might have been different judges selecting the winner each time.

There's been years dd has been overlooked, like house points that are supposed to be given for good behaviour, she's never gotten above bronze, while a child who has been suspended twice gets platinum, but dd sees it as some children need extra support and incentives so doesn't really feel hard done by.

Dd once won three things in one week, pupil of week, buddy of week, and certificate for getting all spellings during the whole year correct. One is selected by class teacher, other is voted by school children and last one is given to all kids who got 100% spellings correct during whole year! and while the kids all seemed genuinely happy for her parents were tutting about her being a "teachers pet"

I dunno, I know it's hard when your dc has worked hard towards something and doesn't seem to ever win, but I think it bothers the parents more sometimes. I've not heard many children complain about another child being good at something, dunno if it's just dds class, but they kind of celebrate it, so if there's a group task that required drawing, they'd all want Jane in their group. But every competition, nativity,sports day I hear several parents complaining about who is chosen, it's either because the child is too good and wins all the time, or because they are not very good and it should have gone to someone with more talent.

Purple if instead of having competitions, your school had hired wonderful art teachers, taken you to galleries, had artists in to do full day workshops with interested children, that would have encouraged you.

I know that these things cost money which schools claim don't have, but there seems to be money for sports trips and for interactive whiteboards. I thing good art teaching is more important.

I do think drawing can be improved though - understanding perspective, different techniques and with me improving coordination as I've aged.

I don't really remember being taught any art as such just told to go away and do things.

Similar attitude to maths in my DC last school - you either had talent or not - when DC were actually taught maths in a through way they massively improved.

So is it natural talent or has the child been taught things out side of school so is further along? Though it would still be wrong to penalise the child in question.

School aren't going to be keeping records and if Jane is a genuinely good artist then she'll win each time. Don't go into school about it, it's not worth the hassle of complaining - save it for something that really matters.

The thing is kids aren't stupid.

If Jane's picture is by far and away the best, they'll know the school were just trying to be 'fair' by letting someone else win.

Which of course isn't actually fair.

Don't complain to school about it. They won't keep a record of this, they have enough records to keep and it will look like you're jealous of a random (to you) 5 year old.

The differences in early kids' drawings can be huge, at an age when many still draw heads with arms and legs and an a brown blob is a horse, others can draw people so well they are recognisable. Jane might be really good after all.

I think art at age 4-6 is one where it could be varied from time to time - it's quite subjective who's is the best picture. Is it the one who's coloured within the lines or the one who's just got so much character into their wobbly picture of Santa Clause.

It is irritating when the same ones seem to win everything. I think it got fairer as mine got older. They kept giving out all the play parts and prizes to the same few in the early years. But they can't deny a time trialled running race or award them the maths prize if they didn't get all the times tables in two minutes and somebody else did. And it becomes fairly obvious who can act/sing/play violin well - whereas it's all quite subjective when they're little. It's more about who's going to stand on the stage and do as they're told.

I should add, no I wouldn't say anything. You will come across badly.

Just wait a bit and things will even out.

There is a boy In my dcs class who has 121 help, I'm not sure what for, but he struggles generally. His drawings are out of this world, beyond belief. They're 6. I hope he wins every art competition there is.

Maybe Jane's just the best?

I dunno, my kids won a lot of Arty Crafty type prizes at school even when they were judged independently.
DD2 won the Yr10 and Yr11 Art prize at high school and there were "teacher's pet" type murmurings.
I suppose Art is hard to judge. But my both got A*s in their Art exams so they must have been quite decent. I have a self portrait DD2 did at just 3 on the wall here in my home office. It is much better than the ones I see on the reception classroom walls.

Does anyone watch shows like Next Great Artist and Portrait Artist of the Year on SKY Arts?

I think it is often surprisingly obvious who the most talented person is, even in a very talented group. And I say this as someone who knows nothing at all about Art.

Ok can I just say I've seen a few of the entries, and the winning one and the runner up. Nothing exceptional, and there is no discernible difference in ability between runner up and winner, just subjective opinion it would appear. They are drawings by 5 year olds. There is no exceptional talent going on here that I can see, so we are all clear.

I'm all for 'talent shining through' and all that stuff but when they're OLDER. At this age it should be about encouraging children to have a go at things and see how they get on. I completely disagree with the same child winning each time. Have a group of winners instead. No reason why 'Jane' can't be in the winning group though.

Running is different as it's a clear winner. With painting/drawing what can look good to one person can look like crap to someone else (visit any art gallery for evidence ) so there is no reason that the school can't mix it up a bit.

I have a similar issue with bloody merit schemes, I wish schools wouldn't do them at all. DD is very quiet (Y2) and doesn't have much confidence although seems to be holding her own in most subjects and is the most advanced reader in the Year. She's never won an award for reading because they don't have them, but the same bloody child every term gets the top Merit award. He's in the same groups as DD for academic stuff (top sets) and is confident (so certainly doesn't need 'encouragement' from merit schemes), it just appears incredibly unfair. And I don't care what people say, I AM going to say something about it because DD is desperate to get the award and I want to ask what she needs to do, over and above what she is already doing, to get it. Grrrr...

Anyway OP, I would not be happy in your shoes and I imagine a large number of the parents feel the same.

If Jane is the next "Picasso" then fair enough, her talent has shone through. However, if Jane's only talent is being the daughter of a governor or PTA chair, or her Mummy is a pal of the Head.....

See no one would suggest they didn't award the Reading prize or the numeracy prize on anything except merit would they? But because it is Art lots of people think it's okay to give it to anyone, to make things a bit fairer.
My DD1 was only really any good at Art, credit where credit is due I say.

Reading, maths, art, sport and music awards should go to the best entry. For "encouragement awards" there are all sorts of Star of the Week/ Pupil of the Month. Our actually make the kids hand them in anonymously so no fiddling occurs.

I think the person with the best pic should win it otherwise it is rigged isn't it??

From a different perspective my sons class (year 1) had different stations and whoever finished those stations first had their picture taken. It was up to the kids when they did them and all stations had to be finished by half term.

My son, due to a bit of competitive nature and enjoying the skills set up on the tables, was flying through the stations and finishing first. After finishing 5 first they told him they would have to stop taking his picture as otherwise it looked like it was a board for just him.

So despite him putting in the effort and finishing first rather than just playing around, he wasn't acknowledged for that. He was a bit miffed by it and sent a message to him that it was pointless trying to come first when someone else was going to be seen to come first IYGWIM. Luckily it didn't discourage him but he just found it a bit odd.

Frankly i think those that do well should be rewarded in whatever area they excel at. There are plenty of other ways to boost a childs confidence and keep them putting in maximum effort than letting them win for the sake of it.

And all must have prizes. (again)

I expect the drawing competitions for the Christmas card, school bench and label were judged by different people who didn't realize she had won other prizes.

So good that you don't care anyway!

I agree with what ClaraSchu had to say about competitions in schools having little to do with what is really important when it comes to creative pursuits like art, music and writing.

I’m not an art teacher but I’m interested in art and did a couple of art sessions with my DS’s class when they were in Y4.

I was relieved nobody asked me to pick the best artwork as that would have been almost impossible - best is hard-to-pin-down when it comes to art.

I had drawn some examples to give the children some ideas and one boy, who had very good fine motor control, was able to create an excellent copy of one of my drawings. One of the girls had produced a simpler, less technically-assured picture with some quirky original aspects. Another girl had a good instinctive understanding of which colours work well together although, again, her drawing was more ‘primitive’ than that of the boy.

Which of those artworks should be considered the best?

It seems to me that there was merit in every picture produced and it was fascinating to see the children’s personalities and their individual strengths revealed through their work.

OP, if your DD likes art, encourage her to do it for the right reasons – and that’s not collecting certificates and prizes.

Encourage her to do it for the simple thrill of creating.

I'm not an 'all must have prizes' person the best runner should always win but this doesn't seem very fair at all. Art is subjective and I can't believe Jane's entries are always the best. A very simple design can often be better than a more complex one.
Who is doing the judging?