To wonder if Jihadi John ever existed?

[Babycham1979]

Just that really. Another convenient bogeyman who was (even more conveniently) 'vapourised' from a distance.

We're constantly manipulated by the powers-that-be, and I can't shake the feeling that this case stinks.

Before you jump on me as a conspiracy theorist, bear in mind the following government-orchestrated events that were used to manipulate public opinion;

• abduction and murder of the Italian premier
  
• bombing of public squares in Italy
  
• hijacking of Cuban airliner and subsequent murders
  
• ongoing collusion, murder and torture throughht the NI 'troubles'
  

Am I alone? Should I be donning a tin-foil hat?

[DoctorTwo]

Jihadi John was a media construct, Mohammed Emwazi was not. In the no-think Sun reader era we seem to need alliterative villains. And yes, he is the product of our foreign policy of the past half century: or longer.

[Justanotherlurker]

MLK is another 'tumblr leaking' episode....

I can't believe that some people are trying to suggest JJ is some kind of black flag situation, I think most people are aware of the tangled web that has contributed to the potential proxy war in Syria, but to suggest it's all some western propaganda shows that you don't really read around the subject matter and in fact are more naive then those who you suspect of just swallowing the 'nice, simple story with good verses evil' trope.

[Justanotherlurker]

DoctorTwo, the knickname and status may have been played up by the media, but in what way do you believe he was a media construct?

Do you have no faith in our secret service etc?

[BMW6]

BrandNewAndImproved
We were quite happy to fund Osama bin laden when he was murdering the Muslims.

Really???? What Muslims was OBL murdering?

[PrussianPrue]

I think the Iraq war was a complete fuck-up. Doesn't pretty much everyone - but Saddam Hussain did invade Kuwait in 1991, he did torture people and commit terrible atrocities. He did refuse to let weapon inspectors in and was generally not complying with the agreement post the first Gulf war.

I'm sure getting oil was a positive side effect of invading Iraq, but Washington had a ton of Hawks in power after 9/11 and it's really not as cut and dry as some narrative of us just fucking over the Middle East in a cynical ploy to get our hands on more oil.

And then, after we're bored of Iraq and Afghanistan setting of The Arab Spring and inventing Jihadi John so that we could blow up a convoy today. That just doesn't make sense.

[wowfudge]

I don't believe he is/was made up - that would just be too twisted. The west has nothing to gain from his invention. What about the lengths that the British government has gone to recently to protect its citizens in Egypt?

[pinotblush]

Whether that was his name, whether that was made up, lets face it, there are plenty that could be called after him :(

[BMW6]

Now Paris is under attack again - 2 or 3 locations, at least 18 people killed, 60 hostages taken.

So, another "Western Construct" or revenge.......? I would put everything I own on it being a Jihadist attack.

[Atenco]

Well one can only speculate, but I live in Latin America and the CIA did organise the overthrow of Allende in Chile, to name just one of many actions that have been proven over time.

And following the Latin American connection, the most bloodthirsty criminal gangs in Mexico's war on drugs are the Zetas ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas ) who were trained by the US and Israelis
( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuerpo_de_Fuerzas_Especiales ) and have to same modus operandi as ISIS

[BMW6]

Latest report 26 dead. At least.

[Justanotherlurker]

I think it's well known the CIA have fingers in the pie that is Latin America, I don't think most people write of the idea that most western governments (along with others) had and have an influence in the situation today, but to call it some blag flag situation whilst ignoring the other side of the argument is being naive.

France isn't really one to flex there muscles on the world stage and they have just been hit by a second attack.

[OfaFrenchmind2]

This piece of shit must have existed. Do you think that what is happening in Paris right now is unfortunate timing?
Stop speculating like a paranoid moronic conspiracy theorist that has nothing better to do to make herself feel relevant.

Lurker we leave the mess of middle East to the UK and the US, that's part of your messy playground. We have more input in Africa, tbh.

[mimishimmi]

YANBU although he quite probably did exist. It's like OBL .... funded and trained by 'our' own intelligence services and nefarious banking interests. Living conveniently 800m from Pakistan's largest military base and releasing agitprop videos when support for war effort was flagging. Then taken out in a show of force although they knew where he was whole time.

The aim is war without end.

[EnaSharplesHairnet]

[FuckYouSiri]

Maybe ask the wives, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters of the men he murdered. I'm sure you will get your answer then.

[BMW6]

although they knew where he was whole time.

Oh really? And your evidence to support this assertion is what, exactly? Do tell, I'm all agog.

[Thymeout]

As I recall, we got involved in Libya when Gaddafi's army were 2 days away from annihilating Benghazi.

And I doubt if the Kurds, who were gassed, and the Marsh Arabs, who were ethnically cleansed, would agree with the idyllic picture painted of Saddam's Iraq. He caused 2 Gulf Wars. Even David Kelly said he was dangerous and we should support the forces against him.

What we should be worrying about now after what happened in Paris is the security of London.

[prh47bridge]

later found by a parliamentary commission to be the security services

No, there was no parliamentary commission that made any such findings. The parliamentary commission found, "Moro's murder, evaluated as a historical fact, appeared as the moment of greatest offensive power of the armed party [the terrorists] and, speculatively, as the moment in which the State proved itself unable to give a barely adequate reply to the subversive aggression."

[Oliversmumsarmy]

If this is a war of sorts then history says we are going about this the wrong way.

Put in simplistic terms you need to demoralise and beat the troops on the ground and then go after the leader. For example Germany was beaten then Hitler committed suicide. Not the other way round which appears to be happening atm. Killing Bin Laden should have been the last target not the first otherwise like Cerberus if you cut off one head 2 more spring up. Each head more deadly than the first.

Which brings me on to the question. Who is the leader of ISIS?

[Oliversmumsarmy]

But if Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar are the collective head of ISIS why are they bombing their own people?

[Aussiemum78]

I'm not generally a supporter of conspiracy theories. People can't really keep secrets, it's not likely that many of them would go unproven.

But I have to wonder after the plane got shot down over the Ukraine, and now a plane full of Russians is bombed. Odd coincidences and I wonder if isil is really behind it.

[Thymeout]

The two planes are totally different. The one shot down over Ukraine, carrying predominantly Dutch passengers, was shot down by pro-Russian rebels. The theory is that it was an accident. They thought it was transporting troops. An un-trained rag-tag 'army' with no up-to-date equipment. This seems plausible to me.

The recent Russian plane brought down over Sinai, probably by a bomb on board, has been attributed to ISIL, because of Putin's involvement in Syria.

Who do you think is responsible, Aussiemum?