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AIBU?

To wonder if Jihadi John ever existed?

142 replies

Babycham1979 · 13/11/2015 14:39

Just that really. Another convenient bogeyman who was (even more conveniently) 'vapourised' from a distance.

We're constantly manipulated by the powers-that-be, and I can't shake the feeling that this case stinks.

Before you jump on me as a conspiracy theorist, bear in mind the following government-orchestrated events that were used to manipulate public opinion;

  • abduction and murder of the Italian premier
  • bombing of public squares in Italy
  • hijacking of Cuban airliner and subsequent murders
  • ongoing collusion, murder and torture throughht the NI 'troubles'



Am I alone? Should I be donning a tin-foil hat?
OP posts:
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emotionsecho · 13/11/2015 19:35

I'll ask again, OP, what exactly are you saying about Jihadi John?

Firstly you state that he didn't actually exist, so are you saying that he is a figment of the imagination of the Security Service, again which Security Services, or are they all in cohoots (British, American, Japanese, Jordanian), and has been invented as a bogeyman to frighten the populace? To what end?

Then you state he is/was a real person but you seem to be saying he was a member of the Secret Services, or controlled by them, to wage war and mass murder, to take hostages and brutally murder them as some sort of grand plan dreamt up by the Government/Security Services - again to what end?

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Babycham1979 · 13/11/2015 19:39

Emotion, I'm asking a question more than providing an answer. I don't know. I am deeply suspicious of the way this has played out though, and I'm sceptical about the 'official' story.

It amazes me that people are either so credulous or so desperate for a nice, simple story with good vs evil and a nice clean trajectory to a happy ending. For all I know, he might well have volunteered to fight for ISIS, He might well have done the beheadings. It's all too..... convenient though. The tail is wagging the dog. Again.

OP posts:
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Oliversmumsarmy · 13/11/2015 19:55

Oliversmumsarmy, everything you mention is a goal of IS. First they cut off the Muslim and particularly Arab world from the rest, destroy their modern governments in favour of a caliphate, then encourage war between the caliphate and everybody else. That's their explicit agenda.

Given the refugee crisis the only people left in these countries will be those that belong to ISIS and those that can't get out of the countries. Think they might have a problem with their plan if that was the case. An army to cover that size of area could be somewhat lacking in "soldiers"

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FatherReboolaConundrum · 13/11/2015 20:02

How about creating a bogeyman and an excuse to take part in yet another misguided military misadventure? We've destroyed Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. Why should Syria be any different?

You think the UK and US governments were looking to get involved in another MENA quagmire? Seriously? The staggering cost, the (completely deserved) destruction of Bush and Blair's reputations, the deaths of thousands of their own military personnel and civilians, the constant threat to domestic security, the way that it shredded the legal and diplomatic basis of the post-Cold War international order making possible things like Russia's annexation of Crimea and making Europe less secure than at any time for 30 years - you think that the senior members of the armed forces and Obama and Cameron looked at all that and thought "yes, more of that, that's what I'd like to be remembered for, getting sucked in to a Saudi/Iran proxy war"?

If that were the case then there would have been a significant attempt at an intervention in Syria three years ago. Instead, Western governments practically bit Sergei Lavrov's hand off when he held out the offer of a compromise deal on Syria. Quite a lot of analysts were suggesting in 2012 that if Russia really wanted to screw up the US and UK, they could just stop vetoing US/UK attempts to push an intervention-favouring Syria resolution through the UN Security Council and watch Obama and Cameron embarass themselves trying to wriggle out of actually doing anything on Syria.


Obama and Cameron are not George W. Bush and Blair (Obama is more like Bush senior on foriegn policy than Bush junior), but I'd bet my house that even Bush and Blair wouldn't choose to send troops into Syria after Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya.

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CerseiHeartsJaime4ever · 13/11/2015 20:03

This is so very far from a nice simple story. It's a hugely long winded political story covering decades and nations sometimes supporting BOTH sides, with more casualties than just the people beheaded by JJ. To what end would the UK gov make him up? Russia would still be bombing Syria and what care so they have for a single jihadi beheading a select few hostages?

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BMW6 · 13/11/2015 20:08

a nice, simple story with good vs evil and a nice clean trajectory to a happy ending

Are you fucking kidding.

Nothing nice and simple about it.
Good v Evil is far too simplistic a view.
I am no missile expert so cannot comment on how good the trajectory was, but I suspect neither are you.
Happy ending......his death isn't confirmed yet AFAIK, but many thousands of people will be very happy indeed if he is dead.

Nail your colours to the mast OP. If you believe that those men were NOT beheaded really, say so. If they were, then by whom?

There is nothing at all "convenient" about any of this. Was it "convenient" that Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were arrested before they could murder more children? Was it "convenient" that Osama Bin Laden was finally found and shot dead after years of painstaking inelligence? Is any murderer found after Police detective work or military intelligence "convenient".

Sometimes the "good guys" win you know. Not often enough, but sometimes.

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TwoSmellyDogs · 13/11/2015 20:11

Bloody well said BMW

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PrussianPrue · 13/11/2015 20:12

So do you think the whole Arab Spring was orchestrated by the West? I don't get it.

Syria and Libya weren't great places to live before, and now they are worse, but could that not just have happened as the people who lived there were rightfully pissed off - does it all have to be because of some tricksy spy manoevering?

And I think most people think that Gareth William's death was suspicious and that the coroner found an open verdict. This doesn't necessarily mean that MI5 or MI6 are to blame.

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BMW6 · 13/11/2015 20:13

It amazes me that people are either so credulous....

and this disparaging remark shows you up for a Conspiracy Theorist. You are desperate to believe that you are soooo much cleverer than everyone else.....

Pathetic really. Here, have a Biscuit

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PrussianPrue · 13/11/2015 20:16

He was a propaganda weapon for IS.

He was a target for the West because of his horrific acts of violence - apparently he was a sadistic, cold blooded bastard according to one hostage - who I note you didn't quote.

Taking him out is good propaganda for us.

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howtorebuild · 13/11/2015 20:17

Anything is possible.

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PrussianPrue · 13/11/2015 20:22

Actually it isn't.

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emotionsecho · 13/11/2015 20:31

There is nothing nice, convenient or simple surrounding Jihadi John and the rise of ISIS.

I am not a credulous person willing to believe everything I am spoon fed by Government or media but there is no way I can believe that this horror has been deliberately orchestrated by shadowy Security personnel for some imagined benefit of 'the West', because, frankly, there is no benefit to the Western powers in this scenario.

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AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/11/2015 20:42

OP, I just wanted to say that I'm with you. I don't "know" either. Actually, I'd be pretty suspicious of anyone who said they did know for sure, one way or another. We just do not have the necessary information to say.
But I also don't think we can believe the stories we are told. Why would we, based on what we know of previous occasions?
If you start a thread like this, however, you will be met with anger, ridicule, and claims that you are insulting victims (a total non-sequitur IMO). Don't take it personally Smile

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BrandNewAndImproved · 13/11/2015 20:44

I agree op.

Not just our gov but those in charge around the world.

The Americans have admitted they assignated Martin Luther king, the Iraq war was based on lies to get the oil and we created the terrorist groups by selling them guns. We were quite happy to fund Osama bin laden when he was murdering the Muslims.

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BMW6 · 13/11/2015 20:56

When did "The Americans" admit that they assassinated Martin Luther King?
I must have been in a coma that decade.

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BrandNewAndImproved · 13/11/2015 21:02

Sorry that was meant to say the American gov was found guilty in a court trial of the assassination of mlk.

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nancy75 · 13/11/2015 21:02

Why are so many people so happy to believe that uk and American governments are secretly causing all of these events and yet refuse to believe that the people you see commuting the atrocities are actually doing it for the reasons that they themselves have given?
Are westerners the only people able to do bad things?

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nancy75 · 13/11/2015 21:04

And when was bin laden murdering Muslims?

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howtorebuild · 13/11/2015 21:06

I think anything is possible, you think it, someone somewhere has probably acted it out and worse. Also psychopaths are over represented in positions of power, fucking knows the things they think up.

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emotionsecho · 13/11/2015 21:09

Another what 'stories' are we being told that we shouldn't believe?

The murder of the hostages?
The details of murder and atrocities related by the refugees fleeing Syria and Iraq?

Are you going to tell us that the Rwandan Genocide and the slaughter by the Janjaweed in Darfur were also made up stories?

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EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 21:11

nancy I wonder at this.

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BMW6 · 13/11/2015 21:11

BrandNewAndImproved
When was the trial of the American government in the assassination of MLK?
Who stood in the dock as the representative of the USG?

Was it televised?

Must have been the trial of the millenia, never mind century.......Hmm

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nancy75 · 13/11/2015 21:15

I am also slightly perplexed by the MLK thing, was the whole government found guilty or just one department?
And what Muslims was Bin Laden killing?

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/11/2015 21:20

Can I just mention that, whatever the disagreements, at least we're all able to discuss this

Doubtful whether we'd be able to in the world which JJ and similar would like to create ...

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