To wonder if Jihadi John ever existed?

[Babycham1979]

Just that really. Another convenient bogeyman who was (even more conveniently) 'vapourised' from a distance.

We're constantly manipulated by the powers-that-be, and I can't shake the feeling that this case stinks.

Before you jump on me as a conspiracy theorist, bear in mind the following government-orchestrated events that were used to manipulate public opinion;

• abduction and murder of the Italian premier
  
• bombing of public squares in Italy
  
• hijacking of Cuban airliner and subsequent murders
  
• ongoing collusion, murder and torture throughht the NI 'troubles'
  

Am I alone? Should I be donning a tin-foil hat?

[icanteven]

I'm sure he existed, but I agree that he has definitely been intentionally developed into a bogeyman to manipulate and focus the attention of a low-information audience.

The tremendous investment and exertion in "hunting him down" is wildly out of proportion with any actual strategic importance this man has. We know him to have executed 8 people. 8. They were graphic and attention grabbing, but put them in a Middle Eastern context where anything up to 1 million Iraqis have died in the last 12 years? These figures are hard for most of us to grasp, and even though the number of people murdered by IS is relatively low, it is still "easier" to focus the attention of the public on one person, and a very small number of deaths.

[ihatethecold]

Yes, but look at them now, completely fucked!

[HairyLittleCarrot]

You're suggesting a security services employee beheaded several people on camera?

I'm going to suggest you need a little lie down OP.

[Atenco]

Honestly, ISIS or Islamic State or whatever name it is going by today arose from nowhere with a very well equipped army, does not practise any form of Islam that is recognisable to Muslims and, according to a French journalist who was held hostage by them, were unable to lay their hands on a Qur'an when he asked for one.

But yeah, I'm just a conspiracy theorist.

As for "To be fair OP I think Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya were in a pretty bad way before we joined in, none of them were countries that were applauded for their human rights or for their high standards of living"

Afghanistan had been in a war situation since the 1970s, but Libya and Iraq had notably high standards of living and education.

[TheLeavesAreTurningBrown]

but Libya and Iraq had notably high standards of living and education


and....notably high levels of torture and disappearances and corruption and kidnapping. Oh and a distinct lack of democracy...

[Oliversmumsarmy]

The op might have something. I have wondered for a long time about how the main targets of these attacks are mainly Muslims and Arabic countries. The westerners who get killed are a bi product of the real target to bring Arab countries to their knees.

Tunisia relied heavily on the now defunct tourist industry

Egypt is going the same way

The destruction of ancient artefacts means those countries and areas will not be visited by anyone who would be spending money in the area.

The Mosque bombing in Saudi Arabia

Syrian men women and children drowning as they rush to leave their homelands.

I could go on the list is endless. Even the attack on the tubes, Edgware Rd was targeted. For those living outside of London The Edgware Rd is an Arabic area of London.

Maybe it is all a plot to bring the downfall of the Arab states. All these young people being indoctrinated into ISIS need to seriously think who they think they are supporting.

Either that or ISIS are just a very very silly organisation who appear to killing off more of the muslim population than the west. IYSWIM

[MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge]

All were countries with internal strife of some kind or another, e.g. a fractious Sunni/Shia split, tribalism, minority separatist groups etc. All had a recent histpry of doing awful things to some or all of their citizens without needing outside help or encouragement to do it.

[TendonQueen]

I can't quite believe I'm saying this, but isn't it fairly patronising to ISIS to say 'they couldn't have thought this up all by themselves, must have been some white Western guy's idea'?

[MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge]

Oliversmumsarmy, everything you mention is a goal of IS. First they cut off the Muslim and particularly Arab world from the rest, destroy their modern governments in favour of a caliphate, then encourage war between the caliphate and everybody else. That's their explicit agenda.

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

Well, some cunt was out there cutting peoples heads off - as long as he's dead I don't care who he was.

It's a start, just the rest to kill now...

[Chipstick10]

Karma.

[wannaBe]

So what are you saying? that it's all a conspiracy? that isis doesn't actually exist and it's all made up by the government to go and bomb Syria?

Perhaps Jihadi john is actually john f Kennedy and he was never shot, instead he lives in Syria with Elvis, and Diana, and he runs through the desert on a horse.... called Shergar...

[MaudGonneMad]

OP can you point me to links to this parliamentary inquiry showing that the Italian security service were the ones who kidnapped and murdered Aldo Mori?

AFAIK, and it's a murky affair, there has never been any doubt that the BR kidnapped and murdered him. The question as to whether the police investigated properly is a different one.

Genuinely interested to read the report of this parliamentary inquiry.

[Donge13]

Op as long as whoever was cutting people's heads of is dead, I don't give a fuck who he is or where he came from!

Just the rest of them to find and kill now!

[ThenLaterWhenItGotDark]

Me too Maud....

[wannaBe]

I actually find it disturbing that there are people on here suggesting that this is all a government conspiracy.

How do we know that those seeking to cast doubt here aren't radicals themselves who are seeking like-minded individuals to groom into their cause. Not beyond the realms of reality is it? MN has a million members, surely it stands to reason that some will be IS sympathisers whether they make that commonly known or not...

[sparechange]

This thread is CRYING OUT for some claig...

[StrawberryTeaLeaf]

"I'm not suggesting he never existed."

The thread's title is "To wonder if Jihadi John ever existed?"

This.

It seems off to me, disrespectful of his victims.

And this.

This is in really really poor taste OP.

Like the people who suggest Lee Rigby's murder was faked.

[TwoSmellyDogs]

Firstly - this. Really. Do it now.

I'm going to suggest you need a little lie down OP

Secondly - this. Absolutely.

Well, some cunt was out there cutting peoples heads off - as long as he's dead I don't care who he was

You do a great disservice to his murdered victims and their families who will suffer the effects of this forever. And since the respective governments have not the faintest foggiest idea how to deal with the terrorist group known as ISIS I think you credit them with more nous than they have between them to think this one up.

[DolphinsPlayground]

Interesting thread. Marking place to read later as on way out the door!

[LMonkey]

The fact that JJ is supposedly dead is irrelevant; he was not a lone murderer, he was fronting IS. Do we really think he is the only one capable of such horrendous murders? Do we really think him being dead resolves the issue? There will be plenty more. If anything there are multiple JJs.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

Of course we dont, Monkey, of course there are many more ready to step into his shoes.

But...It is satisfying that the face of ISIS who so shocked the world with his inhumane acts is now dead. We should be dancing on his grave, the vile shit.

[UterusUterusGhali]

I thought they'd claimed to have killed him months ago.

I think the Russian aeroplane thing was a red herring tbh. It "might" have been a bomb. Well, it might have been migrating birds, but that doesn't keep us scared, does it?

[Babycham1979]

Maud, start with the BBC Timewatch series on Gladio (freely available on youtube) and Daniele Glaser's book/PhDs thesis of the same name (.pdf available online).

These are matters of public record, not the fantasies of a troubled imagination.

[Babycham1979]

Unfortunately I do t speak italian, but here's the Belgian Parliamentary inquiry on the fake terrorist attacks they faced (including some committed by Aericans). Strange times...


www.senate.be/lexdocs/S0523/S05231297.pdf