Yet another work meeting where I'm made to feel a bit of a failure for not wanting promotion

[BigSandyBalls2015]

I like my job, the feedback I receive is good and bosses are happy with me and my work/life balance is fab (part time, working 4 days, 3 in the office).

However, over the course of the last year or two there have been several conversations about moving me up to the next grade/level if I did x, y, z. This is the problem, I don't want to push myself more to get promoted. I'm not interested in moving up to the next grade. There's no question about how I'm performing at this level - they all say I do more than enough - but they fail to see that I'm happy where I am.

My immediate boss is very ambitious, driven, her career is her life (emails being sent at 11/12pm, Sunday afternoons etc), holidays often cancelled. I know she finds it very hard to understand why I'm not like that - and I'm aware she sees it as a failure on my part. Yesterday she kept mentioning my children, saying they'd be 'off my hands' soon (two 14 year olds!), and what would I do then, now is the time to think about my career ......

I have hobbies, friends, two teens who do loads of sport/social stuff, an elderly mother/in laws. DH is running his own business which I could help more with if I had the time. I don't want to dedicate any more time to my 'career', if anything I'd like to do less! It's just a job to me, I do it well, I don't want promotion. I'm happy, leave me alone.

I seem to remember a thread like this recently but can't find it, but would appreciate views. Am I unmotivated and lack drive and ambition? I feel she almost pities me.

Reading this with interest. I think the message needs to be, "I really enjoy what I'm doing and my current work pattern, which allows me to be fully committed to the work we do here."

You're happy, not career orientated. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It seems it's rare to be happy in a job - don't give that up to please a manager.

ok sorry x-posted. I see you have answered a lot of my questions already in your 8:58 post.

"Or is every job like this nowadays, perhaps stacking shelves involves pressure to achieve more and stack more within a certain time frame. Perhaps working on the till requires you to deal with a certain percentage of customers per hour or you're out, and you need to have clear aspirations to be running the shop in your '5 year plan'."

I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. Certainly don't make the mistake that lower status or will be less pressure. I think everything is targetted and pressured. your job fitting comfortably within the time you have to do it (as I gather it does) may be a historical anomaly, i.e., part of the reason they want to move you up and reshuffle may be that they can get someone in to your old job and increase the work: hours ratio to push that person harder

"No-one has suggested my job is at risk if I don't 'move up', but it will be held against me, I know. It will be perceived as a lack of drive and ambition, rather than extremely happy with work/life balance.

That's another thing, they all talk about this 'work/life' balance, pay lip service to it, but in reality they aren't that interested. Same with the recent talk about 'mental health and well-being' apparently being a top priority with managers at the moment ...... can't see any evidence of action being taken, except the odd meeting/seminar with lots of speel."

I hear you, sister

I think what we need to face here is that they are looking to get more work out of you for less money and you don't want to (why should you?)

What pressures will be brought to bear on you and how can you resist them?

Are you in a union?

I didn't see Justine saying at all that it was bad for women to have low ambition.
Now, Cherie Blair once said exactly that, pointedly.
And Xenia has often said it.
Or people like Shami Chakrabati say it when she can't twist MN to her own agenda.

I thought Justine was saying "You can't have low ambition & then reasonably blame your low salary on gender discrimination. Accept that your choices mean sacrifices one way or another."

Be strong & happy in your choices, OP. I've made this decision at work & luckily there are plenty of others like me.

Lock "pushing people up through the organisation is a way of getting everyone to do a bit more for a little less money."

I am so pleased to "meet" someone who actually says this! My friends look at me like I've got 2 heads when I say it!

Tedious isn't it. Probably not sensible to smile sweetly and say something like "i know I'm really lucky to have a full and satisfying personal life with friends, family and a wide range of interests outside work, not everyone seems able to achieve that for themselves, I do feel so sorry for them".

Just grit your teeth and stick to your guns - if she's that ambitious she'll get promoted upwards soon and you'll be rid of her.

Totally agree with you, OP.

If you are happy as you are then don't be pushed into making unnecessary changes or going for a promotion you don't want.

I am like that too. Happy as I am.

I don't want to completely out myself, but it's Civil Service.

And I've been there rather a long time.

I was ambitious. I've got to management level. Then this year suffered a neurological disorder. I'm on the mend but it's made me reflect. All ambition has gone. I come to work, try to do a good job and be a fair manager in difficult times. But I don't want anything else. In face next year I'd be happy to have less hours. My DC are grown up, house is paid for, I'm happy. There is much more to life than work.

Well overall in real terms, wages are falling. There are lots of reasons for this / ways that this has been managed, but one of them is that at every "level" except the very top you are doing a bit more for a lot less money. It's a gradual creep that has taken place over years:

Least experience roles: being done for free by interns (used to be done by first-jobbers, for a salary)

Middle management roles: they do their own admin and other support (used to be done by assistants or first jobbers, so the MMs are now doing 2 or 3 jobs for the price of one)

One of the ways that you keep up this constant pressure on what people are doing for the money is that you keep moving individuals around, calling it "up", enthusing them with a story of "development" but always making sure that you are cutting new deals that are slightly less advantageous to the worker each time.

Often you get people in new, more senior positions that they aren't really fully equipped to do: they don't really have the training or experience, they don't have enough time, they don't have enough admin support or whatever. you make them feel responsible for this, as they are excited about this new "opportunity", so they invest all their own resources into making something that is barely possible, work - working long hours, researching in their own time, using their own social and emotional capital to garner support or advice etc.

I think even if you don't want promotion, you can stretch and develop yourself in other ways within work. For example I hate chairing meetings (very male dominated environment) so one of my development goals is to get more practice in chairing meetings.

Last year I decided to withdraw from a promotion process to the next level as I love the job I do now, the hours suit, it is close to home and I have a lot of specialist expertise in my current role. A promotion would have been great in terms of status, but the pay increase was minimal, it would be longer hours, no guarantee as to where I would be based, potential for a lot of out of hours calls and a lot more responsibility. I sometimes regret it, as my workplace is very grade conscious, but I know it was the right decision for me & my family.

I think what you need to do, OP, is to look and seem the part, whilst secretly not caring.

So take the training opportunities. Agree to the development plans. Work towards whatever X, Y, Z it is they want you to do, at your own pace, not interfering with your current set up, and then if you get to the point that you've achieved whatever it is they want from you to promote you, then you can turn it down at the point that the deal's on the table, with all its specifics about hours and pay and conditions if it doesn't suit you.

At least then you have played the game. And you buy yourself more time, which is valuable in many ways - right now you like the status quo, you see that home requires more of you (two young teens, elderly parents etc.) but time marches on and shit happens, and you may find having the option in a year or two beneficial not a poisoned chalice.

Basically, I think you need to work the system. Even if secretly you can't be arsed with it all.

I like my job, the feedback I receive is good and bosses are happy with me and my work/life balance is fab (part time, working 4 days, 3 in the office).

Promoting suitable women into more senior roles is a key objective for many organisations. You need to be explicit that you are happy as you are, and will not be leaving as a disgruntled employee when your salary/bonuses stagnate and the interesting work/promotions go to more junior staff.

They are not mind readers. By the fact that they are in senior mgmt already they have a different focus/set of priorities to you and for many people your outlook is unfathomable.

You would be surprised at how many of your peers will be unimpressed and insulted on your behalf and demotivated without knowing what you want.

Finally, you may have skills which are highly valued by your mgmt team which make you eminently suitable to be in a leadership position. However that role may have elements to it which are incompatible with your priorities. You can always say, I'd love to do X but this aspect of the role would need to be rethought/reallocated to another employee. Or ask for a deputy /mentor candidate to train up.

Or just say, No , but thank you for asking me.