Am I being over sensitive? *sensitive*

[Jetcatisback]

I posted a while back under a name change re my ex being arrested and charged for offences with children. Don't want to post too much here for fear of outing myself, so suffice to say no physical contact involved.

Sadly DD2 (8) has found the lack of contact with her father very hard to deal with, and has been struggling for some time. So, with the agreement of social services, I reluctantly agreed that she could see him - so long as they ensured it was fully supervised. It was, and the first contact has just occurred.

On returning home, sw informs me that DD was very happy to see her father and after the initial awkwardness, quite happily sat on his knee for a cuddle. I lost it at this point, saying that was hardly appropriate (DD was well out of earshot). But, I don't know if my own personal history of csa has clouded my judgement? I would quite happily ensure that DD never saw him again, however selfish that makes me - but I know how much it would devestate DD and I can't do that to her.

So, AIBU to tell sw that if contact is going to continue, then no physical contact is to be allowed? (I know this is AIBU but please go easy, it's been an awful night and now I'm too stressed to sleep)

disappointed my kids are too heavy to be sitting on laps. (Not overweight but they are 8 not 3)

And when I worked in childcare we had to make it clear to kids the couldn't sit on our knees. It is easier to tell them they are too old to sit on anyone's knee than to differentiate between safe and unsafe laps. Otherwise you face the potentially embarassing situation where they sit on the lap of someone you are not totally sure about and you have to intervene.

They are also too old to e.g. bare their bums in public even though it happened all the time in nappy days.

Its just what is age appropriate. They still hug people they just don't clamber on them.

I'll let my 5 year old be a child a bit longer I think. Bare bums and lap hugs and all.

I am a family support worker and along with social workers, supervise this sort of contact every day. It will be extremely closely supervised, and every single thing he does will be observed, assessed and discussed. He will be given feedback and firmly told what is appropriate or not by the supervising worker after session, and would be stopped from doing anything harmful for the child.
However, no physical contact at all would not be usual, and it cannot be stipulated for your sake, the workers will judge what is in the best interests of your child, and if she wants to give her dad a cuddle she will be allowed, but it should be her that instigates and he would be stopped from responding in a way that is inappropriate.
I am now extremely protective of my dd's as I know how many sex offenders there are and the way that they operate, but my dd10 occasionally sits on her dads knee for a cuddle, and it would be sad if children that wanted to do that couldn't because it's not abusive in itself.
I think it would be wise to tell the sw that you don't want her to sit on his knee but if you say no physical contact at all, that may be unrealistic and unfair as he is still her dad, and she may want that.
This must be very hard for you and I hope that you are getting plenty of support for yourself as well as your dd.

I am going way ahead into the future here, as I am prone to do. She has contact with her Dad now, as she wants. You ensure it is supervised, what until she is 16? 18?

DD rightly does not know the details now. Fine, good and proper at her age.

What point do you tell her the truth?

Do you wait until she is an adult? Or until she has her own DC? What a shock then, to have been allowed to continue a relationship with someone she will not want to leave her own DC with!

Mamma posted exactly what I was going to say. Yes, it's upsetting now to cut the contact but the backlash could well be aimed your way in ten years time.

This must be so incredibly difficult for you.

5 is 8 though disappointed. At 5 lap cuddles were fine. At 8 big hugs are fine. But at some they have to stop running about bare at least outside the house.

I am not overly anxious. My dcs play outside. They can do handstands in skirts all they like. They can even swim in their knickers if they want. Its a gradual process. I'd have swum in my pants at their age I don't now.

5 isn't 8

5 is 8 though disappointed. At 5 lap cuddles were fine. At 8 big hugs are fine. But at some they have to stop running about bare at least outside the house.

Indeed. But you used 3 in comparison to 8. So 3 is okay. 5 is okay. 8 apparently isn't (I disagree) so where is the transition?

Oh God I'm so confused I am still reading, thanks for all your comments.

The LA are currently insisting that it is supervised, which clearly I agree with - if I allow unsupervised then I am failing to safeguard DD. BUT, in answer to how long it will be supervised for, I can only say that the current arramgements stand until court is over. They are fully expecting some sort of restrictions placed on him when sentenced, but in reality who knows. They have said that if no court restrictions are placed, then it would be up to me to decide if it was supervised, and down to me to arrange the superviser. I haven't (and can't ) think that far ahead at the moment.

I agree that banning all physical contact would be very hard to police, and potentially distressing for DD, but surely I can ask that she not be allowed to sit on his knee with his hand on her hip?

DD knows that it is more serious than she knows, and when the time is right we will tell her as much as we are able. Right now it's just the stock answer of "we have to wait until court is finished" that is all I can say. Fuck knows what happens after that.

Jet, you are stronger than I am, for there is no way in hell he'd be anywhere near my daughter nevermind have her on his knee. I'm not surprised you got angry at that, if your instinct is telling you to not allow contact then go with that. Just because of your own history don't assume you are over reacting.

I am so sorry you are going through this

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs given the circumstances of the OP's situation I find the idea of his daughter sitting on his lap uncomfortable.

However, the idea that once you reach a certain age you shouldn't have cuddles on a parent's lap I find deeply sad. Albeit not often, all of mine will plonk themselves on mine or DH's lap for a cuddle and they're 16, 14 and 13! And I love that they feel so comfortable with who they are, confident in their emotions and accepting of their needs to do this.

I guess it depends on personal life experiences...

Gatehouse, that's exactly what I'm worried about - that all this is because of my personal experiences. It took me a very long time to learn about 'safe' cuddles etc, even between me and my daughters, but now I feel like I am right back at square one with feeling that something which should be so innocent as a cuddle, has suddenly become so uncomfortable again.

Thank you to all the posters though, I think I am beginning to see that I'm not just over reacting because of my past.

And yo the poster who said I was stronger than them, trust me I'm not. I feel that if I were strong I would simply stop contact full stop and deal with DD. But, in trying to be strong for her and allowing some contact (she knows it will never be like it was before), I feel that I am just being weak.

Like I said, so confused.

When thry go to school imo but it is just imo because that is the age when they come into contact with people who look after them but whose lap it is not appropriate to sit on. Possibly this is just based on my experience of looking after kids of that age and it being part of what we were taught about keeping them and ourselves safe.

In this case, I really don't think it is appropriate but hey opinions differ. An easier way than saying to an 8 yr old, you cannot sit on your dads lap he's a sex offender, is to say you're getting a bit big for that now but give him a nice hug if you want to.

I say you are strong BECAUSE of how you are dealing with it. Instead of doing what YOU want to do (no contact) you are putting your daughters feelings ahead of your own and trying to make sure she isn't hurt by all this and sees her Dad. It's an awful situation to be put in and I hope you can work out what's best for you and your DD. If that is to stop all contact and deal with your DD's grief at that then you can do it, just keep posting here (if you want to) and I'm sure you'll get a lot of support and hand holding as I'm sure there are posters who have stopped contact for various reasons and will have 'been there' with any issues arising from it with DD.

When thry go to school imo

My DD started full time school nursery at 3.

Fwiw i once had someone suggest that my dd could sit on the lap of her partner as there wasn't a spare seat. Now I know he's an SO. She doesn't. And it's not my story to tell. So it is easier to say thay are not allowed to sit on anyone's knee.

Very occasionally they will get on my knee. I am their primary carer a lp and I know I can be trusted. But I don't encourage it because like I say, it's bloody uncomfortable. Likewise I don't let them swing on my neck. I prefer to enjoy a cuddle instead of feeling like I am being dragged about and squashed as it makes me grumpy and cuddles are meant to be enjoyable.

So, there is a boundary. They are imo too big.

If you don't think your dc is too big that's fine. It's your kid.

However, in OPs case it gives her an easy way of putting a safer boundary in place without having to explain why.

I am.still wtf at sw for letting him suggest she sits on his knee. If nothing else she should be taught any physical contact is on her terms.

Nursery isn't school. There is by needs more physical contact in a nursery. The bo7ndaries are different in a school classroom and in an ASC.

But like I say, whatever, its your kid.

It's a nursery class in a school with a school teacher next door to the reception class and in the main school building. They wore uniforms and took part in daily school life. It was school. (I'm in Wales - it probably makes a difference.)

This doesn't need to be an argument about whether it's appropriate for an 8 year old to sit on an adult's lap.

The point is HE has history and hence HE shouldn't be instigating it. It IS as simple as that. I can see the point about not raising it in the meeting so as to not alert DD to the fact something untoward might be happening, but surely this is basic protection stuff - with the physical contact being on her terms, instigated by her only and other red flags being watched out for in terms of grooming, ie, anything that he might be doing to encourage her in that kind of way. SW should be briefed on this - are they not? Or contact centre staff? I could understand it not being specifically part of a SW's job to recognise subtle signs of grooming, but surely it is somebody's job, and surely it would be appropriate for somebody with this training to be overseeing the contact sessions, not just a random person who is qualified in the area of child protection.

As another poster said, he should be carefully observed and monitored. So my response to this would depend on whether they told him he was not to ask her to sit on his lap or not. I wouldn't want her to attend another session without knowing he had boundaries very clearly laid out and that he had been told very clearly he was not to ask her for to sit on his lap.

I would stop contact.
I know this is unfashionable, but back in the day, when this kind of stuff happened, children were told their dad was DEAD.
I know we are sensitive about that now, but you know what? I think that was best for them. We are dancing around our own needs.
I grew up a decade or so after WW2 and it was common for mums to be 'widowed' and tbh I feel it was best for the kids.
Your DD has to make her OWN life. And this is messing it up.

My very large teenager still sits on my knee sometimes. I don't agree with telling a child they're too big to sit on someone's knee - it makes it about the child rather than the adult. If there's a reason why a child shouldn't sit on an adult's knee, then it's not the child's responsibility to remember they're 'too big' or whatever.

On the other hand, it's a big red flag to me that her dad asked her to come and sit on his knee. That seems very inappropriate in the circumstances. I would expect whoever was supervising contact to intervene at that point.

I understand why most PP have said they'd stop all contact, but that's extremely hard on a child who loves her dad, and it's very easy for a child to think it's her fault that there's no contact, especially when she doesn't fully understand the reasons. Understanding 'later, when she's old enough' doesn't help during those years when she doesn't understand at all and possibly blames herself. As long as she's safe it's probably better for her emotionally to see him BUT that depends on the supervision being rigorous. I find it VERY worrying that he was allowed to call her over to sit on his lap. That should have been stopped immediately. Hugs are one thing, but lap-sitting initiated by someone suspected of sexual offenses against children should be halted straight away.

OP, you're in such a difficult situation, especially with your own history making things even harder for you. What comes across really strongly is that you want to do the best thing for your daughter, and she's very very lucky to have you as her mum.

I wish posters would stopmaking this all about them and whether their own child sits on their knees at whatever age. Your situation is very, very different to the OP's.

Saying "you're 8 now, you're getting too old and big to sit on people's knees, just give them nice hug if you want to" is an easier way to explain to an 8 year old girl, whose dad is about to be convicted of sexual offences involving similar age girls, that she shouldn't sit on his knee.

for you OP. This is a complete nightmare for you both.

And I agree that the SW supervising contact sounds disturbingly naive.

I think it's most realistic to ask the SW that any physical contact is instigated by your DD and your ex is expressly asked not to invite physical contact. I think that's the best you can realistically hope for with a little girl meeting her dad in difficult circumstances.