cut contact with kids dad

[edgarsuit]

so ..... i have recently stopped contact with the children's father only letting him come to there birthday party's and going once to see my son while he was at his nans
The reason for NC is because he has been aggressive and unreasonable constantly swearing at me words like "you nasty cunt " "you make me sick you piece of shit" " your the worst mother" etc IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN. and completely unprovoked i am not particularly nice to him but im also not horrible or angry just sterile really i never swear at him or shout .

a few incidents include him taking my keys from the car and not letting me leave and swearing at me while holding our 5 year old. and when dropping them off decided to change the time from 6 to 4 i explained i wouldn't be home in time so he said he was going to leave them with a neighbour.

storming off leaving my son screaming on the drive for daddy to come back and me having to call in sick at work

causing a massive scene in the middlle of pizza hut when we bumped into him there with his new girlfriend and her children , i tried to calmly explain that it wasn't fair for him to sit on another table with two other children and there's no reason we cant all be civil and sit together , he replied" i'm not sitting with you , you nasty bitch you make me sick then began shouting and calling me a cunt at which point the waiter came over to ask if i was ok .
i then sent the children to sit with him and left pizza hut and collected them and hour later .

he also called me and said " you are going to have to stop all this friday shit coz i cant get back on time to have the kids " ( by this he meant my job ) and i had to leave as a result . and hasn't provided any child maintenance for 2 months

I have arranged mediation appointments to try and sort the situation out and lay some ground rules but during the 1st session he lied through the whole thing so we got nowhere ( I also believe he has a serious compulsive lying disorder as he's been lying about the most random things and caught out every time even by the mediator at the session)

in the 2nd session i lay down my ground rules which were pretty harsh but i feel extremely necessary things like he needs to seek help for anger management and compulsive lying , no alcohol anywhere near the time of having the kids and i will be breathing ( as he will just lie)
meeting with his GF as he lives with her. and a few other general consistency rules . to this he stormed out with the usual verbal abuse .

now i don't know what to do as i don't know if i'm doing the right thing by stopping contact and where i go from here
and weather to try another mediation session if hes willing or let him try for court access

What would you do ?

Not necessarily, it depends upon the person in question, how they behave when drunk, how much self control they have when consuming intoxicating substances etc, so for some people its a perfectly reasonable request in order to safe guard the children

on the one hand, OP's does [based on her version of events] sound like just about as incorrigible arsehole as it's possible to imagine, permanently cutting a parent's content with his or her kids is an incredibly drastic step that should only ever be a last resort.

provided that OP is satisfied that father is at least an acceptably good parent when it's just him & the kids/when his ex isn't around, there's definitely something to work with & there should be a strong presumption in favour of some kind of worked solution.

Because he dropped a tv on his foot and set fire to a tree?!! It's not up to the OP what her ex does when he has the children! Breathalising him?? Give me strength, most people would storm out being spoken to like that. A court, based on OPs version of events wont deny contact !

I agree m1nnie. Some of the things the OP is bringing up happened when he was a teenager. It's just not relevant. And a lot of what the OP is saying is very far fetched, setting fire to a garden (how?), Pizza Hut letting someone shouting cunt this, cunt that in a restaurant continue dining. Burning down the house several times initially just being a statement, then being an exaggeration, then being a theoretical example of what he might do. I also think turning up at a restaurant where your ex is eating with his new partner and trying to emotionally blackmail him into letting you sit with them by telling him it will hurt your kids if he doesn't, demanding breathalysers, wanting to meet his girlfriend and dropping heavy hints that her intention in doing so is to slag off her ex under the guise of concern is getting well into bunny boiler territory.

It sounds like this is just the very bitter break up of a very bad relationship and the OP and her ex just need to stop having contact and get on with parenting separately.

He still has contact up to now, and nowhere has the OP mentioned how her children feel about this, not once. She hasn't said the children don't want contact, or that they're distressed by his drinking or that his girlfriend is not getting on with them. Everything the OP has said has been about her relationship with her ex and has had nothing to do with how he parents his children.

As another poster said up thread, just because parents hate each other and argue that doesn't automatically make them a bad parent.

just because parents hate each other and argue that doesn't automatically make them a bad parent

whilst I read a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other in this situation like many other posters, it is never acceptable for a child to hear one parent calling the other parent a 'cunt'. My ex hates me totally and utterly but would never speak to me like that in front of our children (and believe me, he's no angel and isn't beyond being rude and unpleasant for the sake of it). The idea that children aren't damaged by this kind of behaviour is ludicrous and it is absolutely a reflection on the parent's ability to...well, parent appropriately. And I also agree, if the drinking is problematic, suggesting the use of alcohol is limited when the children are around isn't unreasonable.

A court won't stop contact - that is very clear. But a court can make it clear that such behaviour is intolerable and needs to stop. It can also make orders about handovers and alcohol if it deems it appropriate.

Well yes, but that's assuming that he did actually call her a cunt in front of the children and it wasn't just a slight exaggeration and he actually called her a cow and there is a theoretical possibility that he could have called her a cunt (but hasn't).

But it doesn't matter what he called her or when. Bits wrong to speak like that in front if children, I doubt any civilised person would disagree BUT it's not up to the OP to stop contact because her ex called her a cunt

She didn't duggest he limits alcohol dhe demanded it as one of the term he could see his children, that she would breathalize him to check because in her opinion his behaviour when drunk is unacceptable holy shit I'm angry for him as I type! He may well be the biggest arse on the world but that's incredible!

Scuse typing errors, multitasking and failing

I have a court order that includes, allow mother to meet any GF before she has to agree to hand child over if father is intending on GF coming into contact with child.

And do not consume alcohol during contact or attempt to collect child for contact intoxicated

Along with a fair few other conditions on it. This was ordered by a court and considered by a judge to be the only way contact could move on from supervised whilst remaining safe.

minnie

I've seen threshold docs for care orders with stuff like that on.

Forcing your child to witness that sort of behaviour is emotional abuse

I'm sure the father involved in that case did more than drop a tv on his foot once when he was a teenager

I'm a bit shocked at the attacks on the OP by some posters here. He has called her a "shit" and a "cunt", thrown things and shouted in front of their children. Stormed off leaving their children crying for him. That's emotional abuse towards the kids.

OP you won't be able to breathalyse him or meet his girlfriend. The issue is that the children should not be witnessing the verbal abuse and threatening behaviour from him towArds you. I don't know how much you provoke him if at all, regardless it is important that you find a third party who can facilitate handovers. If you don't have a neutral friend or family member then a contact centre would be suitable.

Exactly, edgarsuit. I answer each person here as if they tell the truth, because that's the only basis for conversation.

Making up something I think is "the truth" and then giving advice on that instead of what the thread starter asked ... would be rather nonsensical.

@Booyaka: It is her choice whether to keep the children away from that guy or not. You accusing her of lying will do nothing to change that. Nor will me believing her suddenly enable her to do things she was formerly not capable of.

The thing is, this particular OP has stated outlandish truths- burning the house down several times??!

It is absolutely not her choice to keep their shared children from seeing their father.

If the man is an arsonist drunkard, then she shouldn't even consider contact, and should have the police involved. However, she is wishing to meet his partner, and is wishing to share meals with him. It doesn't add up.

I strongly feel a neutral third party would take the heat out of the situation, and that both parents should consider the court's parenting information programme.

Exactly bigfish. And it wasn't me 'accusing her of lying'. The OP admitted herself that the burning down the house thing wasn't true.

Yes, you can assume that everybody is telling the truth. But when they've already admitted that at least part of what they've said isn't true, and they've made other questionable claims, do you really think it's wise to go on assuming that?

There are (presumably) real children involved in this situation who probably won't benefit from what seems like a relationship of mutual recrimination.

I also note that the people encouraging her to go NC, like the OP, appear to have absolutely no interest in how the children feel about this situation and what their wishes are either.

I'm sure the father involved in that case did more than drop a tv on his foot once when he was a teenager

No it was a lack of desire to control his verbally abusive emotional outbursts in front of his children and the mothers inability to take it seriously and take responsibility for action to prevent it.

Why don't you test the theory have a chat with the NSPCC about one parent hurling abuse at the other shouting words like cunt ect in front of his children and see how serious they think it is I bet it takes less than 25 seconds before they start using words like emotional abuse, significant risk of harm and referral.

It is absolutely not her choice to keep their shared children from seeing their father

There is quite a sound argument to be had for the stance that if she feels he is harming the children that not only is it her choice it is her responsibility.

It is then down to him to either rectify his behaviour to remove the risk of harm to the children or challenge the op's choice legally.and let a judge decide if it's justifyable or not.

Whilst it's always adventitious to seek children's services support with stuff like this it's not a bad move to remove the percieved risk in the intrum period

"I have a court order that includes, allow mother to meet any GF before she has to agree to hand child over if father is intending on GF coming into contact with child.

And do not consume alcohol during contact or attempt to collect child for contact intoxicated

Along with a fair few other conditions on it."

One of mine had (long story!)

Mother to meet girlfriend before contact including girlfriend takes place, in a neutral place to be agreed upon.

Father not to attend for contact intoxicated nor suffering from the effects of intoxication [hungover] nor to partake of alcohol during contact.

Father not to alter contact arrangements without at least one week's notice to the mother's solicitor excepting emergencies (proof of which will be subsequently required).

He may get contact he may not. It's shockingly inconsistent. I've known of father's who've sexually abused their child get unsupervised contact but I've known father's who've done little more than get irritated by their exes behaviour lose contact.

OP you need to be honest and resist the hyperbole (not easy I know when feelings running high), see your sol and see what they say. They'll know the judges in their area (as did mine) and will know what they will and won't agree to. It's so variable.