Your opinions on getting baby to sleep! (Desperate)

[nameschangerer]

I've posted this here for traffic. I have posted a similar question over the last 6 months but have never had a reply other than offers of sympathy and now I need some help.

I have a 17 month old who has never slept through the night. Waking every 4 hours on a good night. I am breastfeeding and when she was 12 months we decided to start co- sleeping so we (me and dh) could get a decent sleep. It worked for a while.

However, now she is waking and is not settling quickly by being nursed back. It can take 30-60minutes and involves lots of climbing groaning and thrashing around. It has got to the point none of us are sleeping.

I am now pregnant and in the deep throws of awful morning sickness made worse by sleepless nights. I have been doing this for 17 months and just can't keep going.

How can I stop nursing her at night when she screams when she doesn't get it? My dh has suggested he sleep in her room with her and I have to ignore her. I can do that but will this work. How will he get her back to sleep again? Cuddle her or ignore her?

Please please please can someone tell me how they did it. I have no idea how and I've become too exhausted to carry on. Thanks

Can you go away for a couple of nights? Local hotel? Parents? Anything?

Leave dh in charge, with endless cups of water.

If you are not physically there, there is no way she can get boob.

Own room
Own bed (cot?)
Dark, warm and quiet
Snack and drink before bed
Nice teddy

Every time she wakes up, dh goes in and gives her water.

My deepest sympathy.

I was pregnant when my older one was 17 months and crashed my car due to being tired.

Controlled crying saved my life. It took 2 nights. Then did it with all of my 4 over the years. Magic magic magic but you have to be 100% on board, prepared for crying, screaming and fighting and stay absolutely firm and resolute.

There is a lot of myths on mumsnet about cc, it's not crying it out or cruel it's you the adult taking charge here and you need sleep as does your child.

Good luck OP

And yes good luck op. As you can see most of us have been right there.

When they are teens there's nothing more satisfying than vacuuming outside their rooms at 10am sat mornings though.

Haha Lostcat. Looking forward to the days of revenge x

itsmine is SPOT ON. Fantastic advice. I did a version of the same and it worked. Not easy in the moment but so, so worthwhile long term for the good of your whole family, including and especially dc.

lostcat my two dc are now teens - we're lucky to see them before noon!

Hi OP. I'm afraid you are going to have to make a plan and stick to it. She does not need fed at night and in my experience, co-sleeping is great as an exception on a rare night when things have gone belly up but even being in the same room disturbs a baby's sleep after the 6mth period is up. Whatever about you being disturbed!

If it was me, I would get her into her own room and cot first and foremost. Go to her for a feed if you must but after, no matter what the protests, she must stay there. Be prepared for a few difficult nights but this is not 'crying it out' , this is giving her new boundaries and a safe place to sleep properly. She needs time to think and decide on her own and I promise you that responding to 'rage' crying is not helpful. She can't dictate and negotiate things like bedtime, it's not healthy for her or the rest of the family. There is a difference between the rage crying (when they are discovering that they won't get their way this time) and the 'I need help' crying when they are sick or scared. You need to recognise the difference and stop worrying that she is throwing a strop in her cot because she wants out. Once you can do that, she will quickly change her behaviour. If you try to do this softly, it will be far more distressing and confusing for her and will take much longer. Once she understands that she stays in the cot for bedtime, she will likely stop spending her time trying to find ways to get out, will relax and sleep. My two (14mts and 2.5yrs) know the rules and although they try it on at times where I give them a few days of messing in case they are unwell, they settle back into sleeping well once I restate the boundaries. They almost seem relieved and enjoy relaxing on their own in bed at times. So my point is don't worry about CIO being bad for them. I promise you mixed messages are far worse.

Then when that is done (3-5 days of hell) you can do it all again to cut the feeds.

as others have said getting dh to do a few nights and you ignoring is the way forward if you feel that you cant see dd and be firm and say no

im a MN/night nanny and do a lot of sleep training (as well as getting newborns into a routine) and routine is the key and doing the same thing night after night

yes its horrible hearing your dd cry BUT she doesnt need the night feeds , its more comfort and habit and you are all tired and unsettled so its not working for you as a family

she needs to learn to fall asleep without the boob and in her own cot/room and learn to self settle and dh staying with her and doing pat/shush method DOES work and yes the first night is hell and maybe 2nd 3rd but generally in less then a week the habit is stopped

you NEED to sort this before baby no 2 comes

good luck and feel free to pm if you want more advise

If you are consistent about not offering milk for a few nights then the hardest part will be over. Make a plan and stick to it even when the going gets tough- eg husband offering water and you not going in at all.
Good luck! Sleep deprivation is the worst.

Some people I know have paid for the advice of a sleep consultant and said she worked wonders.

Those who have done this successfully - how do you know the difference between 'rage' crying and 'upset' crying?

DD is 12 months and has been a crap sleeper since 7 months. DP and I are exhausted and are bringing her in with us when she cries, but that means we don't get very good sleep. Which was fine when she needed the extra cuddles for teething / sickness (she had a nasty bug and 2 teeth through all at the same time, and a week of needing to co-sleep turned into 2 weeks of still being a bit needy, which turned into 4 months of giving in because we're knackered.

I think I know when she is rage-y but it turns into upset crying quite quickly. And patting her just enrages her more.

I'll second the Jay Gordon method.

It's really gentle, we didn't have any crying and we went from waking every couple of hours to sleeping through the night in a week!

drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

At your stage I posted on here for advice about whether it was possible to cosleep with a toddler and have a newborn as my eldest was coming in with me halfway through the night. A surprising number of people said it was. BUT you need your sleep now.

Your DH sounds sensible and supportive. Could he do the sleep routine after you have fed her? Mine instigated a great routine and we did controlled crying at 16 months. A few nights of sweating and hearing her cry for a few short minutes with reassurance revolutionised things - she was more refreshed, we felt better. But then we had a newborn but at least night waking is normal then!

DH deals with any night wakes (which only occur if she is poorly) and like someone else has said, I tune into hearing the baby and he tunes in more to the toddler. (I do of course wake up to loud cries but not every mutter and cough like I used to).

Good luck and congratulations on your pregnancy

It's a fair question Laura. One does often lead to the other but I feel that if they are crying in fury to begin with, you know they are not sick or frightened and the upset is clearly in this situation about not having their way. So you need to give them a chance to experience that realisation and then stop, think and decide for themselves that 'this is new. Ok, nobody is going to take me out so what will I do next.' The first time is very hard because they do believe you are coming and it tears at your heartstrings to think if them like that but I always think back myself to when I was little and the moments when I didn't get my way. I never felt damaged, just cross, then sorry for myself, then happy to make my own decision about what to do without hand holding from mum or dad. It's an important step towards independence and weirdly, feeling secure. As long as they know they are loved (by being cuddled and treated with love throughout the day) there is no way they will equate a nighttime rule of bed is bed with being abandoned. I firmly believe that. And I notice my kids getting insecure and distressed when the boundaries and rules get blurry. So crying that starts with anger will go to upset the first couple of times but ride it out and you should see them simply learning the boundary (ie. that they can't disrupt the whole family throughout the night without a very good reason).

Ps and I really would work at getting her into her own cot before the baby arrives. I've had them both in with me if the toddler is ill, and even in a king size bed with the baby in a bedside crib, I get a terrible night's sleep because of noise/movements/worry about toddler somehow clambering over me and bothering baby.

Thanks for everyone's advice. My husband spent the night on Thursday going to settle her and amazingly last night she slept the full night undisturbed so it worked! Fingers crossed it lasts. We wouldn't have been as confident without everyone here's fantastic support so it's much appreciated.

DS is 9 years old and still rarely sleeps through.

It just get easier as he has gotten older as he can turn on the tv while I get some sleep.

I do believe some children just don't need as much sleep.

I'm lucky I work part time, so when ds is in school I will do the school run then I have a day to sleep. This day is vital.

Have you read the gentle sleep book by Sarah ockwell smith? It's brilliant. She has a Facebook page too x

Great news that you've had a brilliant night last night. DD didn't sleep through until 18mo (but we weren't ready to tackle it until then really). We did shush/pat and gradual withdrawal. Over the course of a week or so, we got to sleeping through.

I also stopped BFing and switched to a bottle of warm milk at bedtime. We also changed her room and moved her into a bed with bed guard. It meant there was a huge change to what happened before (so no BFing and a cot) but sitting next to me on the bed having her milk while I read a story. If she woke, we would put her straight into bed, just saying "it's time for bed" over and over, no eye contact.

She's now 6yo and has been a brilliant sleeper since then. No ongoing problems at all, she's great at getting herself back off to sleep if she wakes and she only comes into us if she has a bad dream. It was reassuring to hear other people's stories when DD was at her worst.

nameschangerer just watch out for some kids will sleep great for a couple of days and then it all goes to hell again - it's like they're testing out the boundaries. If that happens, stay strong and stick to your plan, it won't last more than a night or two. One of ours did that.

That's such a tough situation. I've been there myself with my 15 month old DD, exactly the same scenario (constantly waking up, breast fed, co-sleeping).

What did help is that I gently nightweaned her. I picked a seven hour time-slot - for me 10 to 5) during which I no longer breastfeed her. For the first week of the weaning I'd only feed her very shortly when she demanded boob so she wouldn't fall asleep nursing. In the second week I moved on to refusing all boob but offering lost of cuddles and hugs. In the third week I moved on to less body contact and verbal only reassurance.

Amazingly, it was much easier than I thought and she only protested for a few minutes each time. I actually think co-sleeping made it easier cause she still has lots of closeness to me.

She now sleeps 7 to midnight in her own cot. When she wakes around midnight she moves to our bed, goes back to sleep without boob in minutes and usually sleeps until 5am. It's a massive improvement for her and she still gets boob before she goes to sleep and in the morning.

Sometimes she wakes up at 3am and struggles to go back to sleep so my DH takes her to the spare room and co-sleeps with her there.

Fingers crossed you'll find a way that works for you and you get the rest you need!

How have the last few nights gone after the success of dh and first night?