AIBU to find the primary school years harder than nursery?

[TheSconeOfStone]

I work 3.5 days a weeks but my boss is not flexible and I can's change this to school friendly (and I do cherish my day off). I pick up the DC twice a week but feel that the school is totally set up for SAHP, or school friendly hours workers. All school events are at 3.15 (fairs, discos) or in school time. It's impossible to join the PTFA (who are desperate for more members but meet on a weekday at 2.00). Even the governors meet before 5.00.

I'm really struggling to squeeze in homework, school disco, assemblies, the occasional playdate with a busy, inflexible job with the added complication that one of the DC is being screened for autism (meetings at school around behaviour problems and screening appointments).

DC1 is in year 3 now and although I know of people to chat to and a couple to invite around for coffee I don't have a support network of parents at the school. My parents and CM are local and amazing though. As a working parent I just can't seem to break into the groups of mum friends in the school.

Any advice on how survive the primary years without feeling guilty and that I am letting the DC down? I didn't know how good we had it in the nursery years.

I feel sorry for you that you feel like you're missing out. Must be especially hard with the ASD diagnosis going on too.

Tbh though, I always assumed all schools worked like this? At our school the special assemblies are either around 9:30am or straight after lunch, parents association meet ups are once a term after drop off, school fairs and discos are Friday afternoon. Even the sports days and school plays are Friday afternoon just after lunch!

We have very few full time working mums, but those who do work I never ever see, and most of them use the 8am drop off and 6pm collection or get kids taken to school by taxi. There are lots who dont even come to school plays and sports day.

I agree it's hard to break in to the mum friendship groups. I don't usually do drop off, but on the rare occasions I do go along there are lots of groups of gossiping mums who seem to use it as a daily social opportunity and hang around in the car park for ages afterwards talking about their babies.

Please don't feel guilty, it sounds like you're doing a great job trying to attend as many events as you can, and it's brilliant that you're only doing 3.5 days a week! But if you're really really unhappy with it, maybe you could mention something to the school about arranging more events outside working hours? Or even look at other local schools and see if they're any different, if you'd consider moving?

Totally agree.
And it was one of the reasons for me becoming a SAHM just before DS2 started school.
I think you either need to accept that school social life is restricted, and embrace the day and a half you do get, or find a job with different hours (easier said than done)

Sack the playdates. Seriously....I did and mine are FINE now and have plenty of friends.

Don't worry about the mum friendship groups....one trick you might like is to invite a friend of the DC to yours on school disco night to get ready with your DC.

It'sa double whammy of playdate AND favour to the other parent as their kid gets picked up and dropped off from the Disco...and many will reciprocate. That will build up your support networks and mean you can call in a favour later on.

Also volunteer any time you can at fetes and discos.

I'm dreading this and DS isn't 3 yet as apparently everything is at midday or thereabouts (PTA, school readings etc). DH and I both work full time with a commute, he is currently temping (not flexi) and I work all sorts of unpredictable hours but can work from home for one day most weeks which is flexi to a certain extent.

Back when I was at Primary School (20 years ago!), you had the end of year play, end of term assemblies, swimming sports and athletics + maybe the odd school trip and that was that. Now it seems to have gone overboard.

I agree don't get to heat up over playdates especially when they are still in infants. I barely went to any until I was about 8 when I started proper friendships and I have a great social life. There are a zillion class parties at that age anyway.

Yanbu.

I worked out of the home when dd was at primary.

Ds has just started and I work from home and for myself so I can work around school stuff. It's so much easier.

June/July is a nightmare. Fitness for night, summer gayer, sports day, end of year plays, end of years assemblies etc.

And yes there is pressure to attend 'friends if the schools' meetings and then people moaning because no one goes. But they don't listen to the 'maybe have the meetings as different times, rather than Tuesday am'

YANBU, but you kind are a bit . My DS just started reception. I work and he goes to and from school on the school bus (not UK). I pick up once a week to take him to a sports thing he does. I do notice that the school gate friendship groups are forming amongst the SAHMs and I'm not part of them, but at the same time, through work and hobbies I have other routes to make friends and I do know some of the mums by other routes anyway. I have the equivalent of an au pair who deals with afterschool activities/ parties etc. so I dont feel like the DC miss out on those, but sometimes they have to understand that I cant make it to things during the week.

Do you have a DH/DP? I do make sure that DH pulls his weight on school stuff and it's not just an assumption that I'll go (in fact he's making flapjacks with 12 reception kids as we speak).

Re PTA, class parent and governers, happy to have the excuse. Hell is other people's committees. Make me the chair with total veto rights and then I'll consider it

In short, there are downsides to WOHMness but definitely not enough to consider becoming a SAHM for (at least not for me).

Gah I hate the PTA equivalent (also abroad) because I'm home when the kids are home but work evenings (and some days 6am - 2pm)), but PTA meets at blimin 7.30pm on a Tuesday evening so I can't be on it. This only works for people who have somebody to put the kids to bed and are free in the evening - 2 parent working families or those with nearby family, (or those with no preschoolers who leave their kids home alone in the evening...)

As a result the 2 working parent families who are not available during the school day but can get a parent to evening meetings have cancelled all the brilliant daytime activities our school and Kindergarten used to do when my eldest was there, and had done for years before that, and which I am home in the day to help with, because it creates inconvenience for them, and just campaign for longer hours for the after school care...

Humph!

I wouldn't mind so much if there was an alternative for working parents. So hand-outs if you can't come to the maths workshop, for instance. But they don't.

What really helped me was Facebook as it is a good way to keep in touch with other parents.

It is very challenging. I work full time so would make pick up about once a term. Our school is generally quite good about listing class lunches and assemblies in advance so I can plan to book time off for some, but certainly not all. I try and tie in having friends rounds with that but I feel bad for not reciprocating a lot.

I did go to the PTA meetings when mine were in infants as they were in the evenings and I'm glad I did. The committee has moved on now and the meetings are now held in the day as it suits the current committee better, which is how it should work if they're putting then time in. We occasionally have the odd issue with them organising things on the assumption a parent will be at the school gate. I got a text at 11am saying to bring money for ice cream at pick up, there were some upset children. Not a massive deal of course but it adds up to the children when I've missed parents lunch, class assembly etc as I only have so much holiday.

Things can be changed. Our parents evening booking has now changed after I complained. Sign up for slots was on the classroom door at 8.45. Options for working parents were to get a friend to do it (my only friend i would ask at school works with me) or contact the school office, which was closed that day. I ended up with one slot available at one working day notice at four and I have twins in the same class. We now have a slip based system that gives everyone a fair chance.

In my experience primary schools are run on the assumption that a parent (a mum !) is available on demand for all assemblies etc ,last minute requests for cakes etc

They seem to be stuck in the 1940s!

To be honest it really depends how much you let it bother you

If you are part time you can,if you want,join in to some extent with a lot of effort

Full time would be very difficult

Now mine are at senior school the vast majority of mums are back at work

The school is being unreasonable if it puts pressure on you to attend things. How exactly are they pressuring parents?

Our school reminds everyone how it's parents must support the school by attending events.

When dd was in year 5, we got told I a Monday that there was an assembly at 3.30pm the next day. I managed to get time off at short notice.

The Head teacher did a speech at the end. She said thank you to all the parents who attended....then went on to say how disappointed she was that some parents didn't make the effort to attend.

It was bloody awful. There were kids sat there whose parents couldn't get time off listening to their parents being slagged off.

Then she went on to say how it was also awful that some kids hadn't been allowed to stay to take part. Completely forgetting that the school encourages after school clubs. She couldn't not grasp that doing it at short notice meant people had plans that could be changed.

Loads of parents complained.

There is also moaning about how people don't go to the friends of the school meetings, as I said earlier. The meeting still be during the day. But maybe in the afternoon every so often, or a different day. Move the meeting about a bit to enable other to go.

I think the problem is often out school don't appreciate the impact their last minute plans have on families and kids. They also don't appreciate that not everyone can get time off, for everything.

n my experience primary schools are run on the assumption that a parent (a mum !) is available on demand for all assemblies etc ,last minute requests for cakes etc

this is true. In fact it happens at secondary. Dd got pushed over yesterday (not on purpose just in the scuffle to get to class). She smacked her head and the nurse asked if I was at home. Dd said I was working but dh was at home, the nurse still called me

Yes I agree primary school is much more difficult to manage than nursery when you work, but please do be thankful you're working 3.5 days instead of 5. I'm tearing my hair out trying to 'have it all' with ds just starting reception, and failing miserably having to work 5 days - I'm looking for part time but can't afford the drop in salary (I've never seen a part time job that is my salary pro rata). It's a killer, my house is a tip, I'm shattered, my mind is elsewhere at work, and by the time I get home at 6pm ds is tired, I never hear first hand what he has been doing at school each day. I actually feel like I'm reaching breaking point every single day, verge on panic, well up and almost cry on the bus home, but nevertheless get up and do it all over again the next day. The weekends fly by once the shopping/washing etc have been done. So a social life with other school parents is pretty low on my list of priorities. A 3.5 day working week is a pipe dream for me and many working parents. I do feel for you though, I can completely relate.

I've been made to feel guilty at not being able to pick DS up from a sporting event - still not sure what I was expected to do with his sister who wasn't picked and was at afterschool club eight miles away.

Is it any surprise a headmistress recently warned female pupils they can't have it all, if this is how the education system views working mothers?

I don't expect schools to support working parents but I do expect the education system to care about equality of opportunity.

Setting up school hours and expectations in this way effectively drives women out of the work place, forces them either to give up work entirely or accept part-time hours that leave families struggling financially and without resilience to the impact of divorce/illness/redundancy.
And yes the vast majority are mothers, not fathers but neither parent should be forced out of working.

There needs to be adequate, available wrap around and holiday care. (And no I'm not saying teachers have to staff that or that schools have to fund that).

I'm puzzled how schools find all this time during the school day for social events, I'd naively assumed school was about teaching reading, writing, maths etc. When I was at primary school parents simply weren't visible during the school day.

OP, I really sympathise. My DD is not yet 3, but the years will fly by and I'm just not sure how we'll manage. My mum was always there when I was little (she trained as a teacher and started a career in her 40s instead). I'm older than she was when she had me, though. We have a really good childminder and I am lucky to only work 3 days a week but even so, I think the primary school years will be very hard and I feel guilty already!

"It's impossible to join the PTFA (who are desperate for more members but meet on a weekday at 2.00). Even the governors meet before 5.00."

That's ridiculous. When DD was at primary school all the PTA meetings were held in the evenings. I know, I was the secretary. I'm pretty sure the governors meet in the evening as well.

Bunbaker - its simply not the case that all schools have governor mtgs in the evening. A work colleague has regularly had to take annual leave or adjust his working hours over the last two years as all meetings at his school are either 1pm or 5pm.

What strikes me is how much is up to the discretion of the school.

We had a separate infants and junior school. In the infants school there was no before/after school club and all the meetings/plays etc were during school time, often at very short notice. The last minute fancy dress requirements I found particularly thoughtless. I found it quite old fashioned on the whole.

Then when dc moved to junior school it was totally different. Meetings were often at 7.30pm - they'd stagger the days/times for open book days so sometimes 9am, sometimes 3.30pm and generally did all they could to accommodate parents. They have an excellent before and after school club and also various activities - sporting, art, music that run after school.

One school can be quite different to another, but it also gets easier as they get older and more independent.

Re meeting other mums; you will do fine by waiting until your dc is a little bit older and making proper friends. Then just invite them round occasionally and offer lifts if they're both going somewhere e.g. to a party or a disco. You don't need to hang round the school gate trying to inflitrate groups. Gradually you build up a network of people who'll help you out now and again if you do them. IME it's not about making lifelong buddies. It's about getting a network together who'll share care/lifts/problems with dc occasionally and have a chat if you see them.

I try to take time out for the more important things - parents consultation, sports day, open book days but I rarely get along to the assemblies. Dc just get used to it really. When they were little I did warn them - I won't be there I'm afraid. So that they weren't watching the door waiting.

If you can't make the PTA meetings, put your name down to man a stall at the fete instead or something. Or bake cakes when they're asked for. There's always something you can do to help.

Our school's PTA met in the evening. Wasn't well attended but it suited the regulars. There were complaints "that's when I put the youngest to bed" etc. So the next year they moved it to the afternoon - complaints " I work, I can't come then". Then they lost some of the regulars because it didn't suit. There is no 'good' time to have a PTA meeting. I think they need to be held when the regulars can attend so possibly change time each year.

Other school events have to be held during school time so you can't really complain about that. Your children will just have to learn that dad/mum/grandparent can't come to everything.

Nursery years were so much easier - we didn't have a family holiday for the first two years of primary school as all our annual leave was used to cover school holidays separately.

Even the governors meet before 5.00.

Not everywhere they don't. Around here they are evenings.

As are PTA meetings.

YABU. Our school has parents forums etc and they do evening meetings sometimes so that working parents can come. Ask the school if there can be some flexibility wth when these things can be held, if enough working parents want to attend they may consider switching time. Disco's at my kids school are always held in the evening around 6.30, as are PTA meetings(they are sometimes held in the pub!). I think you just have to accept that you can't attend everything. Some parents have to work full time and find it really hard to get sports days etc off. I tend to work mainly evenings and weekends so whilst I can attend day time meetings, evening ones would be hard and I miss out on a lot of my kids weekend activities for example cross country running events/ school fairs which the school participates in on weekends. They can't suit everyone as different parents will have different shift patterns. Surely if you only work 3.5 days a week , there are at least 2 weekdays when you can pick up from school and attend after school events on those days?