to say that part of the driving test should involve a simulator assessment

[AyeAmarok]

Of more extreme type scenarios that you couldn't do in your actual practical driving test? There are things that you just don't learn in your driving lessons, and pass plus doesn't cover them either, and is expensive on top of the huge expense of lessons/test/insurance.

You could get into a pod with a steering wheel, peddles, gears etc and a 3d screen. It reacts to your actions in a realistic way taking into account the other (pretend) traffic round you (so not like hazard perception). Things I think should be simulated are:

-Driving in snow, what to if you skid down hills.
-Driving in heavy fog, perhaps with a car appearing in front of you that had no fog lights on that you couldn't really see.
-Maybe skidding on greasy/oil on road.
-A child or person running out in front of you.
-Someone slamming on the brakes in front of you on motorway.
-Someone pulling out in front from a side road.
-A motorbike or cyclist appearing in front of you unexpectedly.
-Be driving along and suddenly git with blinding glare from the sun.
-People cutting you up on the motorway or tailgating you, or other Audi behaviour (joke!) dickish behaviour.
-Merging onto motorways when there's no space.
-Getting a tyre blowout while your driving at 70mph.

Basically, the things that happen day to day out on the roads that you need to know how to deal with, so you can learn that eg braking down a hill in the snow means you skid into the car in front if you're not going slow enough and don't know how to brake using gears.

I'm pretty sure that technology would be able to do this pretty easily, do you think it's a good idea?

It would mean people would maybe learn what not to do if these scenarios where to happen for real when you're out on your own as a new and nervous driver.

Well not if they failed the simulation because they couldn't control the skid/run the fake kid over because they didn't react fast enough etc

As its not 'real' and people perform differently under real conditions. I've been driving more than 25 years and very few of your scenarios have happened.

And quite a lot of your scenarios are practised in lessons like merging onto motorways when there's no gap, leaving 2 arrows distance between you and the car in front etc

Merging on to A roads, not motorways (it's the same skill)

Really? Flip me, in 4 years driving about three quarters have happened to me! I do live in a very busy place though.

I know you practice merging on with your instructor, but I mean simulate what happens when things conspire against you and there's no room and a short ramp onto fast moving traffic (for example), and what can happen if you make X or Y choice.

They should have a Kobayashi Maru as well, where there's nothing you can do and see how you cope.

I have visited a driving simulator at a university which was built to develop these simulations and make them good enough to be part of a driving test. They also use it to train police for car chases etc. The simulator is a real car (a mini) inside a giant sphere and they project images of the road onto the sphere so you can see all around. the whole thing can bump up and down too, so it is very realistic.

There are two big difficulties

1. it is very very hard to build a good simulation, especially if the other cars have to react to what you do rather the just driving along. You need much more than just what you see in computer games.
2. when you are in the simulator, you see the world moving but you are actually sitting still. This makes most people feel very sea sick after more than 5 mins, and they can't complete the test. It is very hard to fix this because it is a basic part of how your brain works.

So the answer is, I'm afraid the technology to do this properly doesn't exist. Sorry.

Flip me, in 4 years driving about three quarters have happened to me!

You should look at your own driving. I've driven getting on for half a million miles over the last 25 years (I've put a quarter of a million miles on my last two cars alone) and I think I can lay claim to about three of those. It sounds like you drive too fast and aren't paying attention.

Well I disagree with that Ricardian, most of those are the actions of other people on the road. I don't drive fast and I do pay attention.

Plus, I'm pretty sure pilots simulate scenarios that are unlikely to ever happen. It's knowing what to do if it happens. So saying "well only a few of those have happened to me" doesn't mean it wouldn't be a useful exercise.

Interesting Parietal about the sickness thing. And a sphere with a 360 degrees view is what I had in mind, though sounds like it doesn't quite work in practice.

Plus, I'm pretty sure pilots simulate scenarios that are unlikely to ever happen.

Because the responses are complex and require lengthy drills. Which of your examples aren't solved by either doing nothing, or putting the brakes on?

Christ alight aye you are either very unlucky or need to think about what you are doing if all these things have happened to you and you find you are constantly reacting to emergencies.

Most of the examples you give are addressed through hazard perception, reaction speed, keeping an appropriate distance from the car in front and driving at a speed appropriate to the conditions and being in control of the vehicle. All of which are examined in the practical and written tests.

The only one I haven't dealt with its the, oh, no I did have a blow out on the highway once.

I found that taking a motorcycle course was much more helpful than any other course I'd taken.

The driving test and lessons we already have is by far enough.
Real driving get skills are formed when driving alone.
YABU.

The problem is that it's easy to react sensibly when you're not thinking 'oh shit I'm going to die'

I can't really see how most of those things aren't already covered in what's on the test already.

Child running out or car suddenly pulling out-emergency stop.
Merging when there's no space-basically the same as merging but slower and more reliant on someone else being nice and letting you out
Things appearing in front of you suddenly-slow down
Sudden glare-use the blocker
Fog lights are covered on the theory test
I definitely remember my instructor telling me what to do in the event of a blow out so I'm guessing that's on the theory test.
I'd be amazed if any learner hasn't been tail gated or cut up at some point (there are a lot of dick heads out there).
Skidding I'm sure is on the theory (it's been a long time!).

I think you're over thinking this.

Skidding I'm sure is on the theory

On a modern car fitted with stability control, if you enter a skid that the electronics can't control you can't either, unless you are driving a car with four brake pedals and two accelerators and you have six feet. You were driving too fast and not paying attention: there's no cure for that. For most of the rest of the OP's list there's a load of IAM bollocks about cadence braking and "steering into the slide", but back in the real world you apply the brakes fully and steer around the obstacle, and the electronics sorts out the rest.

There's too much bollocks about braking and skid control in your 1973 MGB from men in string backed gloves, the effect of which is to prevent people making correct use of the cars they are driving. Anecdotally, too many accidents occur because people brake hard, the ABS comes in and, frightened by the pulsing of the pedal and the noise, the driver comes off the brakes. That's why "brake assist" has been fitted on some cars: once you've initiated an emergency stop, the car stops itself, not giving you the option. Hence the American "stomp, stay, steer" campaign.

F1 fans talk in hushed tones about . But Ayrton didn't think he was that great, for one simple reason: unlike most of the rest of the field, he was driving a vehicle on a full wet set-up (look at the camber on the front wheels) with traction control, stability control and anti-lock braking. Ayrton didn't talk nonsense about the special skills that make man greater than machine: as soon as there were a load of electronics to be had, he couldn't get enough of them; he just used them better than everyone else. You're almost certainly got a load of technology on your car which is banned in F1: you should learn to use it.

I agree with Ricardian, most of your scenarios aren't a problem if you're driving at a reasonable speed & maintaining a safe distance.

Maybe buy a copy of that MN favourite, GTA, and whizz around simulating whatever you like.

I won't bother....

Virtually all of those things have happened to me, apart from a tyre blowout and skidding on oil and were perfectly easy to avoid/manage just with ordinary driving skills and good 360 degree observational skills.

A simulator would scare me senseless, I never perform well on computer type tests or computer games, I guess I'm too old to have grown up playing them.

The driving test is already very hard to pass, I think people having to do that whilst under stress or anxious would make it virtually impossible to pass.

Sorry but I think it would be silly to add those things to the test (though several already appear on the hazard test). Surely for most of them you just break, and if you've been driving defensively (which is what the hazard test is trying to drive home I think) then they shouldn't be too much of an issue.

In addition to all the other comments from previous posters you'd need to practise in the simulator before a test.

Which would make learning to drive even more expensive.

And I would worry that people were learning to drive a simulator rather than learning to drive a car. They are not the same.