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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Demoted after maternity leave

165 replies

Maisy313 · 03/11/2015 19:33

I've been back about 6 weeks, we are a small team in a big very well known corporation. Our boss is going on maternity leave, my colleague who was on the same level as me will be replacing her (all fine) but the person who was my junior and stepped up on my maternity leave to my position is now going to be deputy (promotion not an advertised position), the most junior person on the team is also being given a promotion. So all in all I'm the only person on the team not to get a pay rise or a promotion. All former appraisals have been great, never had any bad comments. Was told today by boss that they were just doing the best thing for the team. I want to hand in notice but literally can't afford to until I find something new, feel so sick. I was told that I was a valued member and they did appreciate me but that's just how things are.

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:13

look [[https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/types-of-discrimination here (no need to be an expert ...)

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:13

shit here

GruntledOne · 03/11/2015 21:14

Expecting a promotion/pay rise seems a bit entitled?

Oh, FFS. She was fully entitled to expect at least to be considered for promotion on the basis of her long experience in the firm and the responsibilities she was undertaking before she went on maternity leave. Given that the possibility of promotions has arisen, the firm would be idiotic to base its decision solely on the basis of the last 12 months. It isn't in the least "entitled".

OP, it could be an idea to post this on the Legal board for some expert advice.

Duckdeamon · 03/11/2015 21:15

Clear case of sex discrimination IMO (not a lawyer)!

I would put in a grievance asap under the company's grievance procedure.

Promotion and development opportunities should be awarded fairly, with team members told and able to put themselves forward for, including women on maternity leave, and fair decisions taken.

Duckdeamon · 03/11/2015 21:17

And legal advice. Do you have a union or legal advice through your home insurance?

Print out any policies on internal job moves/promotion.

ACAS website / helpline can give basic facts.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:17

op is "entitled" to expect the same chances of promotion as her colleagues, whether she is successful or not should be based on her merits at interview etc

even when she is on mat leave

it seems there were no interviews and no chance of promotion for op

that is discrimination and against equal ops rules

Want2bSupermum · 03/11/2015 21:19

Basically you should not have been overlooked for the deputy role. That is the problem. Given your greater experience in the senior role I find it really hard to believe the other junior candidate who did your role for a year is a better candidate for the deputy role than you, who has been a senior member for longer than one year.

Correct me if I am wrong because that is what I am understanding from your posts and I too would be furious. I think you should speak to an employment lawyer. Don't both with HR as they are there to protect the Company legally not you. If you let them know you are upset they will start cleaning up your file and any emails they have discussing the promotions.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:19

op, if you take this further my advice would not be to complain about being "demoted" but about equal opportunities not being applied to you on the basis of two protected characteristics...1) sex and 2) maternity

Viviennemary · 03/11/2015 21:20

I can see why you are annoyed. But realistically you haven't been demoted. I don't think you can expect a pay rise or promotion just after you return from maternity leave.

Want2bSupermum · 03/11/2015 21:21

AF - that is why she should speak to an employment lawyer. They will advise you on what to say when submitting your complaint to HR. It also carries more weight to your complaint if they know you have retained a lawyer.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:23

op, do you pay any union fees at all ?

many of them entitle you to free legal representation

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:25

your employers would also not be allowed to further disadvantage you in any way should you seek legal advice about this

Duckdeamon · 03/11/2015 21:25

As well as being passed over for promotion, OP can definitely include in her grievance the evidence that her job/role/seniority is being effectively "downgraded" in practice - there will be better terminology for what she's understandably upset about in equal ops / avoiding being discriminatory guidance.

Eg suspect there is guidance that says what should NOT happen, eg responsibilities being taken away etc.

Shutthatdoor · 03/11/2015 21:29

Eg suspect there is guidance that says what should NOT happen, eg responsibilities being taken away etc.

That would depend on whether they actually have been though. The OP doesn't say so no one can assume one way or the other.

sparechange · 03/11/2015 21:30

You haven't been demoted!
When my old boss went on maternity, I stepped up to cover her. When she came back, they kept me on at the same level.
She went to a tribunal arguing she had been demoted because she used to have me reporting in to her and no longer did, so it was a loss of responsibility. She lost.

Also, not all posts have to be advertised. I'm currently on a promotion track. I have a list of objectives and when I can demonstrate they are all done, I get promoted. No one in the team will be offered the chance to apply for it. That isn't how career progression works.

Funinthesun15 · 03/11/2015 21:31

See I have spent most of my career working harder to cover maternity leaves (as others did while I was on mine)

I am covering maternity leave now. My workload is higher and I am paid the exact same salary grade I was before. There is no money to pay locums etc because of the impressive maternity benefits available. Swings and roundabouts.

Surely the swings and roundabouts arguement only works though if you are someone that has or ever will benefit from maternity leave?

Original poster

Maisy313 · 03/11/2015 21:34

Thanks everyone for your advice, I still feel really shocked - I just didn't see this happening. I was trying so hard not to cry in the meeting I didn't really put my case forward very well. I'm under no allusions as to who our HR team work for...

OP posts:

Viviennemary · 03/11/2015 21:34

It does seem unfair though that OP wasn't given the option to apply for the job. That could be discrimination.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:34

it doesn't matter what "works"

maternity rights are also bound in law

Want2bSupermum · 03/11/2015 21:37

spare The issue is that the OP too should have been considered for promotion to the deputy role during the manager's absence. If she wasn't awarded the role that should have been talked about because it means either the OPs reviews are not as good as the other person who was her junior before, or management assumed she wasn't interested in the role because she was returning from her leave. Either way, the manager handled it badly.

Also, the big difference between your case and the OP's case is that you were promoted to her level. In the OP's case someone junior to her has been promoted over her. That is wrong from a motivational and legal stand point.

Enjolrass · 03/11/2015 21:39

Have you gone back part time or reduced hours?

Alisvolatpropiis · 03/11/2015 21:40

They're not a trump card though AF. No protected characteristic is.

As a general aside, as a particular sentence has been quoted a few times now -

My previous post re entitlement is my personal opinion, as this is AIBU I wasn't aware I'd be needing to put forward my legal opinion.

Funinthesun15 · 03/11/2015 21:42

maternity rights are also bound in law

I never said they aren't. No one is disputing that they shouldn't be.

It was the covering for others whilst on maternity leave and being covered that I was talking about.

If I was the one that was constantly taking on extra work to cover people's maternity leave for no extra pay and I never had nor never likely to take maternity leave myself, I would feel rightly aggrieved imo. I would be getting all of the swings and no roundabouts.

sparechange · 03/11/2015 21:43

vivien
That just isn't how promotions work in lots of companies.
Mine publishes a 'New Years honours list' of people who get promoted every January.
But if I look on our internal vacancies board now, there won't be one of those jobs listed. Only new roles or replacement roles.

Beyond a certain point in a career, you sit down with your boss and say 'I want to be VP/Director/whatever. What do I need to do to get the promotion?'
And they usually say 'demonstrate you can do X,y and Z'
It will have very little to do with what else is going on with other people's work performance or ambitions.

In big organisations, roles are usually graded. So if the OP left a grade 5 job, and has come back to a grade 5 job, she hasn't been demoted. It is irrelevant whether her formally grade 4 colleagues are now also grade 5. She has come back to a role at the same level she left, as per the law.
Unless it is a really badly written role profile, it will say something like 'manage junior team members' rather than 'have 3 people more junior to you in your team who you have to directly manage at all times'.

Careers shouldn't have to move at the pace of the slowest person on the team.

AnyFucker · 03/11/2015 21:44

That's just how it is, though, Fun

Don't work in a female dominated profession if it pisses you off

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