To ask how do you manage to stay friends with nice people who have values very different to your own

[ginorwine]

Old friends .fun nights out .kind .
They both have businesses and do very little .eg the female only has bookings once in blue moon , months apart etc .claim wtc and therefore are not obliged to sign on and be hassled by job centre to look for work .
She says she has great time .walks the dog , days out , massages etc .v little pressure .happy to use taxpayers money to fund lifestyle .says it's her time to relax etc .
Only 50 .chooses to work cple hrs a week for eg .
My issue is if everyone used this strategy there would not be enough money in the pot to help vulnerable people .
Whilst their choices are not my business I have started to feel uncomfortable when out with them as they openly discuss this and the proud fact they have paid no tax this year etc and how she is looking after herself and my values are that we should all contribute to a system as we can according to our ability .
She has no health issues.
So I wanted to ask when you have a lovely fruend but hold different values does it get in the way , or how do you handle it .

Whilst I do agree that it can be very frustrating watching people claiming WTC who clearly have no intention of working more hours, or earning more actual income, the danger is that people who are S/E and claim WTC will all start to be seen in this way.

Very few businesses make enough profit to live on at the beginning, and I know loads of people who now have very successful businesses that just wouldn't have been possible if they couldn't run at a loss/not much profit for the first few months whilst claiming the WTC help (especially the childcare component). If this is withdrawn, or people have to start showing that they are also spending 40 hours a week looking for more work, it isn't encouraging people to go for it and set up their own small businesses, is it?

IMO HMRC have always been wise to this scam anyway, and I know a couple of people who have been audited thoroughly after a couple of years to check whether they have actually been un 'remunerative employment' for the purposes of claiming WTC.

My friend's business made very little profit (though quite a bit of turnover) for about three years. However, he now employs 24 people, pays a lot of taxes and has ensured several families have left the official numbers of unemployed in this area. He pays himself more than enough now that he does not need to claim WTC.

As far as remaining friends with people, that depends on how much you enjoy their company and how much you can overlook the things about them that annoy you, I guess. I have friends that are polar opposites of me in many regards, but we don't discuss those bits and the good bits are worth their friendship. In this same scenario, I would feel very similarly to you, though.

Oh, do bear in mind that in order to claim WTC, your friends will have had to declare that she is working 30+ hours per week - this is in itself fraud if she only works a couple of hours a week. Surprised the self assessment/corporation tax departments aren't digging further to see where she is hiding the income from all her hour's work (speaking from bitter experience)...

I think it's more than possible to remain friends with someone who have very different beliefs and ways to yourself, my friends are always trying to drag me over to their side (I'm younger and scattier than most so...)
But in my experience, the people who choose to claim as much as they can, blag the system so less tax is paid by them, make sure that they get all they can, aren't the people you essentially want as friends, because that attitude isn't only for the big bad government! Been burnt by these types in the past!

Yes you can have friends who have different values if they still have some excellent elements that you really respect/value/admire. I wouldn't care about wtc and income personally. I would struggle to be friends with someone who was unbearably competitive or particularly shallow though.

I think it's about the person and the situation, here are my examples:

My BiL, who I love, is a proud racist. I hate this about him. He voted UKIP last election and was proud. I have a relationship with him where I can tell him how and why I hate it (jokey and non jokey). Sometimes I take things as "jokes" or say them as "jokes" because he's married into my family and I don't want to fall out with him. We both know and understand our real agendas, but we make it work.

I used to drive to work and would regularly pass a colleague who walked, so I used to stop and pick her up. We didn't have much in common, but I think she felt she needed to make polite conversation. This was often around how many "darkies" there were around (this was a while ago). I found another route to work. Did want to alienate a colleague, but didn't want her in my car!

When DD was 3 (she's now almost 14) she did ballet. A mum who's daughter went to the same nursery also went. When DD first joined ballet and I understood we weren't allowed to watch, I brought a book ( a whole half hour to myself!!!). Other mum came and talked at me. I stroked the book I never got the opportunity to open. I used to stare at the crucifix she liked to wear around her neck (I am happy to be atheist).
She's the nicest person you could ever meet, and we help each other out loads. Your friends do not need to be a carbon copy of you!