AIBU be absolutely horrified that this product is widely sold in Egypt?

[notamum3210]

Backstory: I'm half Egyptian and was recently there with family. We needed to buy some pesticide and this product was recommended by a local shop.
My fiance is certainly horrified. He posted this to reddit last night www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/3r96k8/my_fianc%C3%A9_went_to_egypt_and_went_to_buy_some_bug/

Warning: there's a lot of awful commenting.

I know that casual anti-semitism is rife across the Arab world and even, shamefully, my extended family but even this shocked me. According to the shopowner, it's one of their topselling products and sold across the country. He also seemed to find it hilarious.

Cactus Annie thank you for taking the time to write the post I should have when I read this thread the other day. My battery died but it was remiss of me to not come back and challenge some of the dreadful comments on this thread.

"If nothing else, the entire episode is a goodly reminder that there is a world outside the EU-US axis, and they see things completely differently. Mainly because their engagement with history is very different to ours."

Are you implying Lurking Husband that the holocaust was not an unambiguous evil? That it can be rationalised and understood contextually?

Iq84 - I don't think her quote is a saying that at all. Depends how you choose to read it.

That people should realise that others don't necessarily think and see things, have the same history as we do. Lots of people live in their own little bubbles/ towns/ circles and have no idea what is going on elsewhere, and it can be dangerous or at least ignorant not to realise this.

We all automatically feel horror at the holocaust - it's ingrained in us, can be a bit of a shock to come across people who think differently - and I've been there and I was surprised and shocked that someone could think differently from me on a subject like that.

That's actually an inherently racist statement in itself Bambambini. That people who come from a different culture aren't capable of realising genocide of millions of people is wrong.

They're perfectly capable of realising that. They've just chosen to rationalise it with their own unpleasant prejudices.

The motivation behind it has much in common with the motivation that sends people out on EDL marches or sent Hutus out to chop up Tutsis. This 'but they just can't understand' business is racist in itself because it ignores the fact they are perfectly capable of understanding it, they just understand it but won't condemn it.

It's not inherently racist - you are full of shite.

That statement was inherently racist. If a statement rationalises approval of the genocide of 6 million people by saying they just think differently, and deny the fact that they have the capacity to understand that the murder of fellow human beings is wrong then you are making a racist statement.

And it really is racist. It harks back to the sort of 19th century thinking which justified the Empire, i.e., they are not capable of critical thought on the same level as us and therefore we should understand their limitations.

When do you start holding people responsible for approving of genocide? Do you have to be born in the West? Do you have to have white European origins? Or just a western education?

IMO it doesn't really matter what race or religion you are. There is no cultural, ethnic or religious justification for supporting, justifying, glorifying or promoting genocide. That's just a basic of humanity, no excuses.

Bambambini also remember where the holocaust came from – white, western, educated etc. people in a European country.

Any culture, country or people can be taken over by a deeply racist, and possibly ultimately genocidal movement. It's happened in many locations around the world and it's not based on race.

You are putting words in my mouth Book that I have not said. I have not brought race into this, although you have for some strange reason. You seem shocked that not everyone out there thinks or believes as you do.

This product is shockingly awful. Can't believe anyone would think it's not that bad!!

Thank you, CactusAnnie. The first half of this thread made me feel sick. The Holocaust is in living memory for some of our families - unbelievable to be basically told to lighten up and get over ourselves.

That statement was inherently racist.

No it isn't, for at least two reasons:

• it is only asserting that different moral standpoints exist: some cultures view capital punishment as morally just, others don't; some cultures (maybe just one) believe that even accidentally killing small insects is immoral, others don't.
• it makes no assertion that the stated moral standpoint is a racial attribute. As stated earlier in the thread, some cultures are not taught even this part of history and therefore unaware it occurred (likely due to state or cultural indoctrination). Read alteredimages earlier post.

I was never taught about the Armenian Genocide, but it claimed the lives of 0.8 to 1.5m less than 100 years ago. How many people in the UK know about it?

If I were to state that some cultures support the mass murder of homosexuals (another target of the Holocaust's 11 million total victims) it would not be an inherently racist statement in any way whatsoever.

"Bambambini also remember where the holocaust came from – white, western, educated etc. people in a European country.

Any culture, country or people can be taken over by a deeply racist, and possibly ultimately genocidal movement. It's happened in many locations around the world and it's not based on race."

Where did I bring race into this, is there a parallel thread going on somewhere?

Is it fuck a moral standpoint. Morals are based on the judgements of others actions and how you perceive them. So we may view someone who has sex outside marriage as perfectly fine, whereas someone else may view them as beyond the pale. We may view someone who hits his wife as a criminal whereas someone else views them as keeping society in order.

Supporting racial genocide is just about as far from a moral standpoint as you can get, it's not based on an individual's morals or actions, it's based on a blind irrational hatred.

Bambitini. I still think it was a racist statement. I'll give you an example why. I have said something you don't like. You're holding me responsible for that, you're cross about it and you're saying I'm full of shite.

Yet when somebody in Egypt holds much more abhorrent racist views you want understanding because they 'think differently' and 'live in their own bubble', which seems to be some kind of justification to you.

Why am I responsible for what I think but why are they not responsible for what they think? I know some people who think differently and live in their own little bubbles (Barnsley) who go on EDL marches and vote BNP. I don't see anybody rushing to say that's fine because they don't know any better. I don't see many people insisting that we understand them and their differences.

Which is basically what you're saying in not so many words. That it should be accepted because we shouldn't really expect any better. And that is racist.

I'm not calling you a racist, I'm just pointing out that denying that Egyptians are any less likely to be able form their own views is a racist statement.

No, you are still full of shite and making things up again. I don't want hand holding and understanding for Egyptians who think likening Jews to cockroaches is funny and acceptable. I said I wasn't surprised to find that they thought like that given their current and recent history with Israel and the level of hate in that region. It's not as a surprise to me as it would be if I found it in a shop in Bath. I encountered similar hate from some Palestinains in Israel - again given the region and history, iI wasn't that surprised. That doesn't mean I agree with them or think they are right, but knock yourself out with this whole racist thing.