To ask if anyone has any positive stories of working "flexibly" as a lawyer?

[Pumpkinnose]

I am inspired slightly by the other thread on the headmistress telling school girls they can't have it all but mainly wanted to appeal to the collective mumsnet wisdom for my personal situation.

I'm currently on maternity leave with DS2, am a City lawyer now in house. In house role isn't as hard core hours wise as City law but still very full time (v fast pace, some work on weekends etc) and I have a longish commute each way. I will be asking to go back 3 or 4 days per week after mat leave but not sure if it's going to be possible. My boss is a slight control freak (I find law attracts them...) and struggles when I'm not sitting next to her so working from home can be stressful all round.

Despite this sounding highly negative, I enjoy my job and I'm good at it. I am fortunate that I have a hands on DH who previously worked part time pre my mat leave though this is looking trickier. I'm the main earner. However we've been cautious financially and could afford for me to take a pay cut though not to stop work entirely. I recognise I am on paper in an extremely fortunate position. I just want to have an idea of what other options are and what's out there in case I'm missing something obvious. I feel that I am in a constant contradiction of being highly ambitious and not wanting to be away from my kids all day every day, rushing home to get 10 mins with them before bed. The eldest is starting school and I'm conscious it is all getting more complicated.

We currently use a nursery. A nanny would be a real stretch - I'm near London and given it's obviously paid out of taxed income it would almost not be worth my DH working. I've also known a number of people who have found it hard to find a good one. I know a good one is worth their weight in gold. No childminders serve my child's school though there are after school club options.

How does anyone in client facing roles make it work? Does anyone?? Anecdotally it seems I need a boss who can just let me get on with it a bit more and also obviously get a part time role. But do any exist where you're not glued to the iPhone even when you're not there? I've wondered about contract work, trying not to work in the summer holidays but is something like Lawyers on Demand a good idea? Is it the end of your career? Will it pay the mortgage? HELP!

I'm sure there are people who use assignments through LoD and Eversheds Agile etc to fill gaps and do this successfully. Perhaps by doing other locum work through another agency to keep themselves going. The income would be very unreliable though and if you're the breadwinner I definitely wouldn't recommend it. One of the things Ive found the hardest about going from being a partner in a large international firm to running my own firm is the fluctuation in income levels and the enormous stress that can cause (and I'm in the fortunate position where DH is also an equity partner in a large law firm and so we'd hardly be out on the streets if my work suddenly dried up). It can be very difficult to cope with.

If anyone is thinking of setting up on their own the other thing to consider is the ability to get out again. If you decide it isn't working you have to cary run off insurance for six years after you cease trading (typically at a premium of more than 200 percent of your trading premium) which can run into many thousands of pounds. I stupidly didn't research this properly and only found out when I was recently offered a very tempting in house role which didn't work well from a financial perspective once I factored in the run off insurance.

I am in-house. When i came back to work after DC1, I wanted to be full time but with 3 days at home. My boss agreed and I am still doing between 2 and 3 days a week at home.

Flexibilty to drop off at nursery, but still expected to have calls/email in the evenings/weekends, and work on holidays if urgent (only lawyer int he company).

Having said that - it works for me as I have a stay at home partner.

My experience is that part-time doesn't work unless the law firm/company is specifically looking for a part-time worker.

I used to work full time for a major City firm, had DS1 and went back part-time. They were not at all happy about it and made it very difficult for me - I think I pretty much ended up doing five days' work squeezed into four but only getting paid for four. Eventually they gave me a bad appraisal and said my performance was suffering and that the only way it would improve would be if I went back full-time. It was all rubbish - one nice partner even basically admitted as much - that there was nothing wrong with my performance; the firm just didn't want part-time workers. Having said that, the managing partner of the team was well-known to be utterly horrible. They had form for doing the same form before.

I then moved to another major firm who were specifically looking for someone to work part-time, mainly working for just one client. They are brilliant. I work three or four days a week and they are entirely flexible.

I also have a friend who worked for Axiom for a while and she thought it was great - much less pressure, no Blackberry, could just do her job 9-5 and go home and forget about it. She could also arrange her jobs so that she could take the entire summer holidays off.

So, in conclusion, I think it can work really well at the right firm/company if they are completely on-board with the idea, but if they are not they can really make your life a misery.

I am in house in a big company in my mid 30s, ex MC. I work FT but 9-5:30, one day from home, and do virtually nothing outside this. I see my kids morning and evening every day and all weekend. I earn good money. IME the key is to get into the right company - apart from the very senior peeps and the workaholics all the lawyers and actually other staff too work these sort of hours and from home, none of this was a special working mum type deal. You need to get out of Central London because the culture is completely different. Or become a PSL. IME other routes don't work. Good luck!

Im not sure the culture is that different outside of london. It depends on the firm/company.

I worked for a small regional firm, a magic circle firm in London, a large international firm (regional office) and a large national firm before setting up on my own so I've experienced the full range (not in house). I can't say the attitude was that different. It's luck as much as anything. It can work if your direct colleagues are willing to help make it work.

I trained at a MC firm and moved in house to a bank. Did 5 days initially then dropped to 4 after mat leave. Have Monday off. Have a nanny 11 hours and a short commute (northern line straight into the city). It works, just. I go in for all four days as I hate working from home and I think it helps to have 4 full days of face time/ability to go to meetings/drop over to the trading floor on a whim etc. DH Also in hiuse although in a v inflexible job - although he is moving and we hope the culture will be better on that front. Am currently on mat leave again and will go back on the same basis I think. Monday off is better than Friday off as no one ever has a crisis on a Monday!!

Biggest issue for us was nanny illness but we were very unlucky on that front. Had almost 6 weeks of it in 18 mo! Nanny was otherwise brilliant and it was all unavoidable but still a head ache

I do more than 80% but probably miss fun things and profile stuff which j am happy to sacrifice just at tt his stage to retain decent work. Helps that my female boss had 3 kids too and works full time but understands the juggling as she has no family assistance/relies in nanng etc so we are constantly commiserating!

Oh and I do very little on Mondays unless it's an emergency. Generally check my BB at breakfast time and then at tea time. Only during the day if it's absolutely necessary (closing a deal).

You need the magic blend of a mix of factors:

• empathetic manager/team
• short commute
• dh/dp who does an equal share
• affordable cast iron childcare
• financial flexibility (eg if you're planning on being self-employed with no pension, paid leave, sickness benefit etc).

Simply moving out of PP to in-house might not fix it alone and don't be fooled into thinking all public sector jobs are marvellously flexible - they're better than PP undoubtedly so they work well with nursery hours but IME school pick ups and covering school holidays are still tricky and of course, you've less money to spend on childcare.

Regular home working can still be frowned upon outside of the civil service. Not being expected to be in the office in the evening can translate into being expected to be there 9-5pm.

I'm an in-house lawyer and have a great boss who also has a child. I work full-time, but am very strict on leaving no later than 17.45. I find that if I work hard during the time I'm there in the day, then nobody has any complaints. A lot of people who work longer hours simply aren't as productive - I find they chat more and work more slowly. It's all about quality and not quantity for me. Also, if something was truly pressing (rarely is), I will work in the evening when the children are asleep. Good luck with finding the balance.

A friend in very similar situation as you retrained to teach and now teaches Law at the local college and does some marking etc too. I think she did some law related teaching at the local university and she also does locum work I think. I wish you well. I had a high flying corporate life too and I chucked it in for freelance after dd was 6 as I just couldn't cope with travel and hours

It sounds increasingly that it is a case of striking gold with the right employer and right team. I think I have to try and make it work where I am as at least I have some goodwill. I think they've missed me whilst I've been away so hoping that I have some slight bargaining. Ideally I'd cut my commute down too. The working from home is just so at least I can do a school drop off.

Alternatively I need to find one of these elusive part time roles. Clearly ideal if a job starts that way but I'm frustrated how few employers offer them. Surely having a lawyer in the office even one or two days make sense against hefty PP fees, though am all too aware of headcount pressures!

Also Dimple interesting to hear a positive story about Axiom. I'd need to weigh up the risks but I think that would be ideal for a few years to keep my hand in. Ideally I'd work part time but in a client as my strength/experience is definitely in house but see if I could organise assignments with time off during school holidays.

Going against the grain mostly here(!), I have worked very happily 4 days per week since having DC, client-facing, first at a Magic Circle firm, then at a top City firm. I moved for career progression reasons, nothing to do with DC or the flexible working.

It all depends on expectations and what you want - a 4 day week isn't a 9-5 fixed-hours contract, private practice just isn't like that, but it is a way to work flexibly, have quality time with the kids, reduce the overall demands to a manageable level. I do check BB on my day off and make the occasional phone call while kids napping etc - but I am in control of my diary and managing my own time, not having it imposed on me. I do the above with a long commute (3 hours per day) as well but use the commute to get work done. I work from home once a fortnight on average if I can. DH also has high powered career so we have to have 50:50 split on home duties (e.g. being back for nanny in the evening)

It therefore very much is possible but it is essential to have a supportive boss who trusts you to get on with things and manage your time. I suspect it may also depend on practice area. I do litigation and can manage my own case load, working for several different clients at once, so I just organise things so I am not doing things on my day off (same as if I was in court that day or engaged on another client matter). Anecdotally it seems to be harder in corporate and banking.

My magic circle firm were very supportive of part time and flexible working. Most of the female senior associates in my department, and some of the men, were working flexibly or part time, on a variety of different arrangements. Some of the partners also worked 4 day weeks. I've also found my new firm equally supportive, although it isn't as ingrained in the culture there. When I interviewed, I just made it clear that how I managed work/life/family was by working 4 days and it was take it or leave it - they were keen to recruit me so they let me bring over the same arrangement.

I don't go with the "well you will do 100% of a normal workload for 80% of the pay" argument against a 4 day week. Yes, I do often do 100% of standard hours but am assessed against 80% targets so am over target for the purpose of bonuses etc. If I was working full time, I'd be expected to do 120% of standard hours. I do work many evenings (not weekends as have to look after the kids) but I did before DC as well.

Other thoughts - good childcare is essential, we tried the nursery option but that was really stressful, a good nanny really is worth her weight in gold. It is much easier to work flexibly at a senior level as you can delegate and it is more about managing clients and getting the work done either by yourself or someone else. At a more junior level where you are meant to be doing the work for someone else I am sure they can get frustrated when you are not there. I avoid delegating upwards on my days off - it should not impact on my boss. I don't attend meetings on my day off. I just say that I can't make it can we do it another day (without giving reasons).

It can work. Things have changed a lot I think.

I am an in-house lawyer in an investment bank. I returned to work part time (3 days) with 2 days home working after my second DC. My immediate manager has been extremely positive and supportive.

A lot depends on your manager being prepared to give it go and support you. I think it also helps to be flexible in what work you will do and be realistic in the roles that are compatible with part / home working. If you are too specialised, I can see this being a problem. I used to be a transactional lawyer but now cover a different (but related) area within the bank that involves more project based work which is more compatible with part time working. This hasn't come with any loss of seniority.

I think if you are part time you do need to be prepared to do a little extra to keep things moving on the days that you are not in the office. I don't respond to emails whilst I am with my children (I ask my team to call me if there is something truly urgent) but I do work some evenings after my DC are in bed. It is not oppressive and it allows me to do a shorter working day.

Don't be afraid to ask - if you are doing a good job you will be surprised how far your manager will go to retain you.

It is a good idea to suggest a trial period as well and pro-actively ask for feedback on how the arrangement is working.

Another option may be to suggest you work on a consultancy basis - I have also seen this done successfully at my bank in instances where a colleague wanted to work entirely from home and another works just one day a week. Clearly there are pros and cons to this.

Good luck.

Hi, I'm not sure if this will help at all, but will give you my experience anyway.

I am a barrister, and have two kids (now 7 years and 20 months). I do work flexibly in that when I am not in court I work from home (to do any prep, advice etc). On those days I usually stop work at 2 and pick up dc2. I can also take as much time off as I want around court cases. However, when I am in court it is obviously all systems go, and I can work long days, work away from home etc.

I am a criminal barrister so this will all be a bit different to your job.

I use a nursery for Dc2, and we have an au pair who does school runs, plus nursery runs when necessary. Nursery plus au pair is cheaper than having a nanny, and more flexible. Plus you get the cultural exchange aspect of it.

Very interesting ideas here. I was full time in private practice in London until I had DC1 a couple of years ago. I'm currently a SAHM, but I do miss it and would love to get back to work part time in the next year or two, once DC2 starts nursery. I've seen quite a few women do part time after having kids (which usually means 4 days and always being available on the Blackberry). Seems to work ok though, as far as I know.

"Scomo" is short for Scott-Moncrieff, the firm which, I think, first set up to engage with self-employed consultants.

I earn more, for working fewer hours, than I ever did as a commercial solicitor in private practice or in house. I don't think I'd manage that if I relied on a firm to give me work - I go out and get my own. I tend to run it as though I'm working full time, but with a reduced caseload. I notionally book into my diary any family or personal commitment which takes me away from my desk during conventional office hours - things like the school run or going for a run during the day. If I were full time, I would not be universally available, and would have to get back to clients if I could not take their call because I was in a meeting. All that matters is that you get back to the clients quickly and give a good service.

I approached a local, but very high quality, niche firm which did not have anyone specialising in my area of law. The relationship I have with them is mutually beneficial, as they get a fee earner for no overhead, and we refer work to each other.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I am shamelessly bumping for any lawyers on their way home.

I work fixed hours 3 days a week at a small West End firm, doing private client work (so wills, trusts, tax, probate).

I'm only recently back from ML so it's early days but its working fine, and another woman in our small team works the same pattern. Private client law simply has fewer time pressures than other areas of law (few deadlines, not transactional) and the arrangement doesn't generally cause problems with clients, as long as they feel they're being looked after. I mostly work on my own files so it doesn't really impact 'the team' if I'm not there on a particular day.

It's not a brilliantly glamorous or well paid area of law, esp given the technical knowledge required (I have an additional tax/trust qualification on top of my solicitor quals), but as a result good private client solicitors seem to be like gold dust at the moment. I have seen a fair few firms advertising for part time positions, in the hope of snaring someone decent I guess. I get called by rec consultants all the time, some have offered to source alternative part time roles for me, although I'm not looking to move just now.

Anyway, it's probably not your bag at all but worth throwing out there. If I was advising a female trainee / NQ I would definitely suggest they considered private client. (I'd advise a man to do it too because I think it's an underrated area of law, but you know what I mean!)

In case it's of any use, I recently spoke to these guys:

www.923jobs.com/

They had some school hours only/term time only legal roles on their books. Not sure if it's the right geographical area for anyone on this thread, but just in case...

I'm a solicitor, 12 years qualified. I've always worked in the City. Not Magic Circle/Silver circle but think just a rung below. Deliberately chose family friendly firms. Had first child, returned to work at 20 weeks full time but negotiated early start and finish. Moved firms, negotiated same.Now have second child too.
Husband does drop off so I can get up at 5.45 and head into London early. I do nursery pick up x2 days, have a nanny from 4pm 2x days and work at home one day.
I felt that in litigation it's not really possible to do it part time and if I worked 4 days I'd still end up doing 5 days work, being called on my day off etc. Plus I'm an ardent feminist and didn't see why I should wreck my career prospects, end up with a smaller pension etc than my husband.
Flexibility works great for me. . At busy times I might have to work in evening after putting kids to bed but that's definitely not every week or even every month. At a Magic Circle - I'd never see them. Even if I was single and child free I wouldn't want to work more or harder than I do already. It's possible!

I work for a silver circle firm as a mid-level associate. I have negotiated an early start and finish - my husband (also a lawyer) does the nursery drop off to enable me to get into the office early. I do the pick up, and often log on again when I get home and DD is asleep.

I also work from home one day a week, where I can. This gives me more time at my desk as I'm cutting out the travel time. My husband still does the nursery run and I do the collection.

If I ever have a client engagement in the evening that can't be moved, my husband and I swap. Equally, if he has a morning appointment, we swap. It takes a bit of forward planning but it has worked for us for over a year. I block out my diary between 5 - 7 so people aren't tempted to put meetings in. It took a while to get it established but I was very firm that I always left promptly at the agreed time and now it has become the norm.

Logging on in the evening can be tiring. At busy periods, I can work again from 7 - 11pm. This can get exhausting after a few days. I try and make the best use of my time by drafting emails on the tube, delegating where I can.

I am still on my full pay; I am managing to hit my target. The team I'm in has an increasing number of working mothers and fathers that do something similar. There were too many men and women leaving for more flexible roles so I really do feel like the firm is implementing its flexible working policy.

Like others have said, I decided not to reduce my working days because I saw too many people working on their non-working days. However I think the extent to which it is a success partly comes down to the type of message you give from the outset. If you're happy to take calls, etc, others don't respect the fact that you're off as much.

It might be worth looking at the organisation "Citymothers" if you haven't done so already - most large-ish firms have a corporate membership. They have useful guides and run seminars on the topic and others.

Good luck!

I'm not sure my personal experience is helpful but posting just in case. Partner US firm. Work full time but manage with the informal flexibility that being senior allows. Will probably be flamed but your experience will be different if you have kids at 28/30, mid level associate not making as much money (limiting childcare options) and with many people ahead of you that in effect control your office-based hours (setting conference call times etc). If your practice area, life plans generally and promotion prospects permit, your experience of juggling kids and work will be vastly improved if you do it when senior and earning more. Great nanny is imperative, and a partner who is on board. Finding a firm with low or no presenteeism is also key. Every week I work from home one or more days - never sure in advance which ones but seems to work well to top up spending time with DC. I don't consult with anyone when I do this - just as my gym bunny colleagues don't consult anyone when they do two gym trips a day and commute via bike (which makes them completely unavailable by phone or email for 3 hours per day).

Currently on mat leave but went back to work part-time (3 days) in-house for a large company after DC1. It works well on the whole though there's a lot of juggling as we rely on childminder, not a nanny. In addition to prammiles's list I'd add that agreeing with your boss what work is possible in 3 days is helpful. I knew there was one portfolio considered as a 3 day role. I took on some other responsibilities as well but it's always been a useful benchmark for workload discussions with my boss. My DH does the drop-off pick up on the days I work but I still usually make it home by bedtime if I'm prepared to catch up a bit in the evening.