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AIBU?

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To think if I had paid £6k a year to have my daughters educated by this woman

366 replies

catgirl1976 · 02/11/2015 19:50

I'd want my money back

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/head-teacher-tells-girls-you-cant-have-a-career-and-be-a-mum#.xfVk8JvGg

Glad she's stepping down.

I get telling girls there is a glass ceiling, but she's pretty much telling them to roll over and accept that.

I get telling girls that it's a valid choice to choose not to have children, but her message over all is appalling.

OP posts:
SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 09:22

mehit did you tell your son that he should consider a more family friendly job?

What did he say?

merrymouse · 04/11/2015 09:24

And what do you suppose is the ratio of men v women who have to make such choices?

Why would a man not have to make that choice?

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:36

He is early 20s loves the job- quite happy to work late, he gets time off to compensate. Went off to Italy last week. He has no children- why would he need family friendly? He may never have children- he definitely isn't keen on them at the moment.
Everyone makes choices.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 09:40

So that's a no then mehit?

No one mentioned to him that his current choices will (in your opinion) impact negatively on future family life.

Yet all young girls in school need to be warned of the impossibility of a 'high flying' career and family for women?

Seriously?

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:41

Since he has only started on the career ladder he can easily make changes later- all good in his CV at the moment. I would say the same to a DD.
Pointless starting a career aged 21 for family friendly if you may never have children. Make the most of the freedom when young.
You make choices throughout life.

LittleLionMansMummy · 04/11/2015 09:43

OK I'll try putting it differently merry.

Do you suppose a similar number of men and women make a career choice based on the availability of home working due to childcare? I am not saying men would not do so if employment culture were different, I am asking what you believe is the reality in today's 'equal' society?

SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 09:44

So why are you so keen on girls being told of all these problems whilst they're still at school?

Why would you need to give girls the heads up but not boys?

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:44

Good grief! That is not what the Head said at all! She said that you can't have it all. Men don't have it all either.
You can make changes later- what you choose at 20 is not set in stone for the rest of your life!
The job you want at 20 isn't necessarily the one you want at 30 or 40.

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:45

She was a girl's school! Which boys was she going to reach?

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:46

IT never occurred to me at 20 to want a family friendly career- I didn't have a family.

merrymouse · 04/11/2015 09:48

"I'm sorry, I'm not a feminist. I believe there is a glass ceiling – if we tell them there isn't one we are telling them a lie. Women still have to plan for a biological fact – i.e. motherhood," she said.

I think she is aiming her points very squarely at girls and only girls.

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:51

Well she was a girl's school! Men don't have to plan for a biological fact - they are not going to carry a baby for 9 months or be able to breast feed.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 09:51

mehit it's fairly obvious that you consider it A Very Good Thing if young girls are made aware of the problems of working and family life (well before they consider having a family) in school.

It's also obvious from your posts that you think it impossible for children to thrive with two working parents.

Yet you felt no need to say any of that to your son. Not even when he chose a job that is particularly unfamily friendly.

Riiiiiiight....girls need telling, but boys don't.

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:52

Even a really driven woman is going to have to have a few days off for the birth and may not be in top form if they get morning sickness etc.

tootsietoo · 04/11/2015 09:52

It HAS to be said to girls, because society STILL, totally unfairly in my view, puts more pressure on women, as the child bearers, to do the caring. It has been this way for ever, it will take a long time to change, but at least if we have the heads up we can fight it! I sleep walked into my current position as primary carer, which I didn't really want. More fool me. If I'd had a heads up, I could have made better decisions, or at least more consciously made the decisions I did! I think she's right to talk about it to her pupils, and we should start a campaign for the same issues to be raised at boys schools and mixed schools!

SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 09:54

You have heard of maternity leave, I assume?

And you do know that many firms offer really excellent packages? DH's assistant will take off 18 months (much of it on full pay) then return part time for 6 months.

Another senior female partner in his department has worked from home two days per week since her child's birth.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 09:56

toot indeed it needs pointing out to girls that they live in a sexist society!

But we will only help them change that sexism if we tell boys too!

Telling girls of the problems and expecting them to fix them, will result in no change whatsoever.

merrymouse · 04/11/2015 09:56

You can certainly teach at a girl's school without all the 'I'm not a feminist' nonsense.

Being pregnant does not preclude working and even if you take a couple of years out for maternity leave, that should not prevent you from having a 'high flying' career (and there are plenty of careers that don't involve banking, the law or dog eat dog career ladders).

Children need parents long beyond the time they are babies and you don't need a womb to take somebody to scouts or deal with friendship problems.

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:56

I am having my words twisted.
Men and women can have careers and juggle child care. Children will thrive. Most people do it.

Men and women need to be told that if they have children they can't both smash through the ceiling to the top and have it all. They will have to delegate a lot of the child care. Nothing wrong in that- children can thrive.
BUT that is not 'having it all' - they are missing a lot of time with their children. Men have never 'had it all' if they haven't seen their children for the nitty gritty of life.

Mehitabel6 · 04/11/2015 09:58

No - but the child is closer to the person who is there to take them to scouts and sort friendship problems. It depends what you want. Choices.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 04/11/2015 10:02

Oh mehit just because your life was completely drawn along binary gendered lines, doesn't mean it has to be like that.

As I say my mate's DH collects his kids every day and takes them to wherever after his day in his high flying job!

The DC aren't closer to mum or dad. Nor are mine. We all spend a lot of time together!

KatharinaRosalie · 04/11/2015 10:05

There is quite a bit of room between being Margaret Thatcher and part-time, school hours only, minimum wage job. But it's certainly made to sound like the latter is your only option if you're a mother.

I think of me as having a career, not just a job. I keep an eye on emails, travel occasionally and yes sometimes there are urgent matters that require my attention. But other than that I'm there to either pick up or drop off the kids and I practically never work weekends. Did all crazy overnight and weekend work before I had kids - as Want2 said, "the more senior you are, there are so many more options for flexibility that are not there at the junior levels", I find that this is certainly true.

So this is what I would tell young girls - that yes there are choices to make, both in your career and personal life. But not 'it's either career or kids, you choose!!'

BoboChic · 04/11/2015 10:11

If this headmistress weren't identifying a real problem I doubt McKinsey would currently be addressing this same problem with renewed vigour (even though McK has been trying to address it for three decades).

Pico2 · 04/11/2015 10:11

I think that we set many children up to fail, or feel like failures, if we don't let them know that 'having it all' is rare and that the whole spectrum from career focused and no children through to SAHP (if you can afford it) are valid outcomes.

Having choice is empowering, attempting to live up to an ideal instilled in your formative years can be devastating. Knowing that £6k per term was spent on your education can create pressure too.

Something I think is missing from the debate is that we often think of how people balance family life with small children but not older ones. So nannies, nursery, CMs, 7pm bedtime then back online to work, vomiting toddlers. In many ways, teenagers need their own parents more. A teenager is less likely to accept a nanny, they stay up later, have more complex issues to deal with. Having a family/work balance isn't about getting through the first 5 years. It is 18 years as a minimum. That isn't a few years off the career path and jump back on, it's getting on for half your working life.

merrymouse · 04/11/2015 10:22

I agree about teenagers Pico, but that affects men as much as women.