To think the attitudes of some MNetters towards extended family at Christmas very dispiriting

[welliesandleaves]

There just seems to be a lot of threads here at the moment where posters are being advised to 'do whatever suits you' at Christmas, regardless of how much it hurts the feelings of parents or parents in law.

I realise that sometimes it's just not possible for families to be together on Christmas day, but I actually feel my heart breaking for some of the elderly people who are being left on their own, not because they're toxic or anti social, but because their grown up children or children in law simply can't be bothered to include them. All these comments about wanting to spend Christmas 'with my own family'.

AIBU to find this very depressing and selfish. Surely 'family' includes parents, regardless of whether you now have a partner and children of your own.

Wolpertinger No, it's not aimed at you?

"If people:

1. want to be alone; or
2. are so bloody obnoxious that they deserve to be alone

that is different to their selfish grown up kids would rather do whatever the fuck they wanted and they got left alone/caring for a sick spouse" [quote]

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I am not talking about situations where fit and healthy grandparents want to make their own plans for Christmas, or where there is a specific and difficult family situation where it is just not possible for family to be together.

I'm talking about the 'no room at the inn' mentality that some people seem to adopt about Christmas, determined that no one is going to intrude on their 'perfect' day with dh and dc, and cheerleading others on to adopt the same selfish attitude in the name of 'assertiveness', even when it means leaving an elderly parent on their own for the day or leaving one elderly parent looking after an ill spouse, with no family sharing the day and the load with them.

It's just not what Christmas should be about in my opinion.

I never really thought about it as selfish, just normal to be your small nuclear family on christmas day. Growing up we saw my maternal gps on the Sunday before xmas and my paternal nan and half sister on Boxing day. Christmas day was always just Mum, Dad and me.

I think this was partly to do with distance (altho my maternal gps only lived a 45 min drive away) but also because the way we spend our day is different. We eat in the evening and go out to the pub at lunchtime. My GPs wanted their dinner about noon (blueeerch). Also it would mean people staying over and no one wanted to stay on air beds/floors etc on christmas.

My parents were firmly of the 'this is my family now' attitude. And i can kind of see why. If you have very different expectations of the day then it's a real hassle for everyone.

This will be the first time my parents and Fil (mil died this year) and my half sister will be local/in travelling distance and trying to balance and juggle who we see when is already a nightmare. I would definitely say the main issues is drinking and pets. Rightly or wrongly everyone in my family like to have champagne and nice wine over the christmas so no one wants to drive and with dogs you can't leave them for too long (and no one wants to go to the house with the unruly dog).

We have a plan of military timing and it's doing my head in - go there for 9-11 for present opening, then go here for brunch 11-12, then go somewhere else for a lunchtime drink, then go home and start dinner, then do something else...I am going to have a miserable day and the children (1 and 3 with ASD) will be overwhelmed and exhausted. I'm considering saying knackers to it all and going nowhere.

Don't do it then mrsk. Seriously.

My friend is nearly 30. She's an only child with divorced parents, so has to spend every Christmas day alone with her mum. Since becoming an adult, she's never done what she wants to do at Christmas, so her mum isn't alone. There is a degree of resentment there.

'Just our little family' may be a chimera that could last for fifteen years or so at most, if you are very lucky.

Hard things happen in this old world, when it is essential to have a network blanket.Terrible for those who have nobody.I could not even imagine...

The tables turn sooner than we think in life.

My MIL is the only DP left on OH's side. Every year they spend Christmas together, she comes over (from France or wherever she is in the world at that time) for a week. If I ever want to spend Christmas with my family, then it's everyone all together. This year we will all be at mine, DSis and BIL also attending.

Next year DSis will likely go to BIL's parents, DP's will go to the GP's in Wales and it will just be the 3 of us (in Australia by that point). It's likely to rotate that way forever more. It doesn't get spoken about - as it's our first Christmas in our new house, and we're away for Christmas next year I monopolised it a bit and said I'd like to have everyone, no one complained, just RSVP'd a yes.

I can't imagine ever leaving anyone on their own. Even if it wasn't quite what I wanted to do. I get that some people don't have that kind of family arrangement. I do have a friend who refuses to leave her house Christmas Day (2 under 2's). Last year everyone had plans, so she spent it with DH, DS who was 3weeks old and herself. Each to their own, I don't particularly judge anyone for how they want their own Christmas' to run. If I knew a family member was alone they'd pop into my thoughts throughout the day and I'd end up feeling terrible.

As an issue, this is so contextual that it's impossible to generalise. I do agree that there is rampant selfishness on this site in places, but there are also cases of extremely toxic relatives who are incredible bullies. Yes, people have an obligation to show love and care, but no, they shouldn't have to put their physical, mental and emotional wellbeing on the line for someone who doesn't show the same love and care back.

Everyone should do what they want at Christmas obviously, but be aware that those decisions can come back in the future.

My DH Aunt always used to insist on nuclear family only Christmas. Never hosted or visited anyone.

Now her own DC are saying the same and she will be on her own and is complaining to anyone that will listen no doubt PIL will invite her in the end

I don't understand it either. The thought of leaving PIL or my mum home alone on Christmas Day doesn't sit right with me. We are hosting DH family this year and I enjoy it, I grew up with lots of family at Christmas.

I would honestly feel lonely if it was just me, DH and the kids.

I have also done my fair share of traipsing all over England to visit various relatives.

Well I'm working Christmas. My dc will get Christmas on Boxing Day.

I don't think those people who want to be 'just their little family' and 'make their own traditions' will see it that way when their kids have grown up and do the same to them.

We don't 'own' our children - they are part of a much bigger whole and I think making the effort with extended family at special holiday times is part of that. Yes, it's often infuriating and frustrating trying to keep everyone happy - but I hope to be a part of my kids future lives - so I try to model those behaviours now!

I agree moononastick. I sometimes wonder if the posters who insist, as soon as they acquire a partner and children, that parents and parents in law no longer qualify as immediate family, ever really think ahead a few years. How will they feel in fifteen years time if their own children take the same attitude and firmly shut the door on them at Christmas time, regardless of circumstances, and even if it means leaving them on their own for Christmas day?

And while I realise that distance or family issues and problems can often mean that, sadly, it's just not possible to include parents who would love to be with you at Christmas, there are also those who use all kinds of excuses to mask their selfish attitude. "It's just another day", "the neighbours will be delighted to have them over", "I'm sure, in her heart and soul, she'd be much happier on her own", "it's not for me, it's for the sake of the children".

'Just our little family' may be a chimera that could last for fifteen years or so at most, if you are very lucky.

Well yeah, because after that the kids will be grown and then who cares where you spend Christmas? I just don't get why adults care about it. I have a hard time believing that in my old age I'll enjoy having my family over for Christmas if I know the kids have just opened their presents half an hour ago and then had to come to Granny's straight away. I'd rather wait.

What people have said about it being dependant on context is right so here's mine. Despite my mother having 8 brothers and sisters we were always on the hook for visiting my gran, who had dementia. And I loved my gran, and I never made any grumpy noises about Christmas etc being about her, but I would have liked to have had a few more "normal" Christmases. She moved in with us when I was 7, for a year, and that Christmas and all the ones after it we went to her house or we went to my auntie's where there was a big family Christmas on. My parents had me late so my granny was quite old and my cousins were all older than me so it was always just being sat in the front room while everybody got a bit drunk and chatted and I played with something that was small enough to take with me in a taxi. Never got to see the Christmas telly as it was never on. Then my gran got properly ill when I was about 13 and she moved to a nursing home and from then on till she died when I was 22, we always spent Christmas at the nursing home or she came home to my aunty's and we went there.

Sorry to be selfish but I hope my own kids get a better run of it than that.

I am a contrary mare when it comes to Christmas.

My DC's are grown and gone, DS1 married, baby due just before Christmas. DS2, settled with his partner.

I encouraged them all to start their own Christmas traditions and not feel duty bound to visit every man and his dog on Christmas Day.

This, however, is the first year they have actually decided to do just that.

We will visit DS1 with new baby on Boxing Day (DiL parents going on Christmas Day), and DS2 is visiting the week before Christmas (he lives about 250 miles away and is staying with partners parents this year.

Therefore, I have achieved all I set out to do. Happy, independent children, building lives of their own. So, why am I dreading Christmas Day? DH howls with laughter at me, but I just cannot see the point of it for just the two of us. I am threatening to just order a takeaway.

Having said all that, I like being in my own home. So, unless DH pops his clogs and I am incapable of caring for myself, I really do not want to spend Christmas at either of my children's houses.

I really can see both sides of the argument, but would always invite secretly praying for a refusal, rather than leave any parents out of the festivities.

It really is just one day.

TBH I think most of the problems come from totally inflexible adults, who have a set routine and cant break out of it, and also a lack of ability to communicate.

firmly shut the door on them at Christmas time, regardless of circumstances, and even if it means leaving them on their own for Christmas day?

I would be hurt, if DH passed on and my DD didn't want me! My own DP are good fun and totally flexible. I would hope to have this sort of relationship with my own DC but then Look at Dawn French and her searing honesty with her relationship with her DD Billy, how they fight and don't get on.

If relations were that strained would I EXPECT to be invited, and if i was would i GO? Probably not....

Imagine if people were more flexbile and less routine - we MUST start that lunch at 1pm nonsense.

With my In laws they have never allowed or guests to theirs on the day not even for a drink....which means DH leaving us to go there ( where we are not wanted) or, us go and leave our guest who has no where else to go.,

We chose to stay with our guest, as we could have all gone to in laws but they said NO. They are very strict when it comes to hosting and guests and unfortunalty, its not something we have been able to accommodate.

WE invited them all to us once and they sat and sulked in the other end of the room!

my own family home was always door open, anyone welcome....its been hard to learn not everyone is like this?

i know which thread your referring too op, and i think its sad too, its a tragic situation.

would I expect to have my dc with me, I dont know but then....some people make things miserable..

I agree with the OP. My mum is on her own and I have made it clear than any Christmas plans we have must include her. The same would apply to DH's mum or dad should their partners pre-decease them.

I hate the idea of anyone spending Christmas alone.

I'm with toomuchtooold. Once the kids are grown, let them make their own choices at Christmas, as at any other time.

I wonder if the 'can't leave anyone on their own at Christmas' crew, are mainly extroverts and couldn't stand being on their own themselves?

DH and I are happy with our solution. I'm NC with my ILs. I don't invite family I haven't seen all year. They don't invite us either!

DH sees his parents the week before as they are committed christians and spend the day working with homeless charities. I see my parents on Christmas morning for a sherry and a mince pie.

We have a late lunch. My DC may or may not turn up. I'm happy with this. It's just one day.

I am an only child, DH has two living siblings and a mother living. My parents are divorced and I can’t invite them both at the same time. I can’t be in three places at the same time. In the past my dad has visited us, my mum has visited us or we have visited her and we have visited my in-laws. One year we took my dad to the in-laws as well but that was over 10 years ago now.

These days, I generally always spend Christmas with my mum and her kind of partner/friend. They are not “together” but he has been a bit of a surrogate grandfather to my son. My FIL died when my son was 5. Usually they come to us but this year we will go to my mum for a change.

My father generally spent Xmas with my aunt. But she has now moved into a care home, so he is on his own. He lives in sheltered accommodation so someone will invite him for Xmas dinner – in fact I suspect he will receive multiple invitations. We can’t go to him because he has nowhere for us to stay and he isn’t fit enough to drive to us and would struggle with the stairs in our house even if we collected him and took him back.

My MIL spends Christmas with my SIL who is single and often my BIL too depending on what his kids are doing (he is also divorced), and a friend from down the road who has no family. She would not want to come to us, and doesn’t really have enough accommodation for us to stay with her overnight although as my SIL lives around the corner it might be possible. But then we’d be imposing ourselves on her and she’d feel she’d need to cook Xmas dinner etc. So we go to see her the Sunday before Christmas and have a nice lunch out.

I admire the people who drive all over the country ferrying around elderly relatives on Christmas Day. I was also amazed by the people who thought on the other thread that a 12 hour round trip was ok every other weekend for the DH who wanted to visit his mum with dementia. My father lives 2.5 hours away (depending on traffic, sometimes it’s 3, and there’s no train) and I see him about 3-4 times a year! Ok, if we’d got on better I’d make more of an effort. Ditto if he lived somewhere with a railway station. Triple ditto if he had somewhere for us to stay so we didn’t need to do a 5 hour round trip or pay for a B&B.

I actually hope that my son does spend Christmas with the in-laws when he’s grown up. Then DH and I can go off on holiday to warmer climes at Christmas. I certainly won’t be upset, it sounds wonderful to be able to do what you want at Christmas. And I totally agree with the person who said men just don’t feel guilt about not organising their lives around others’ needs (or more accurately, wants).

I grew up with it always just being the 4 of us (then the 3 of us when my older brother left home), as we lived on a different continent to all other family. Now my brother is in the same boat (he's the one who lives on a different continent), and I know he's found holiday times sad when everyone else has family (his wife's family also live too far away).

After a crazy Xmas Day one year which saw us waking our tiny children up, letting them have their stockings, then jumping straight in the car to join family 3 hours away, I vowed that from then on, Xmas Day would be at our house, and anyone who would like to join us would always be welcome. We do make an effort to see whoever hasn't joined us over the holiday period, and wouldn't let anyone be alone (unless they were genuinely happy to do so). But I do have fairly normal family (even if it can sometimes be strained with PIL, they're always, always welcome, and they're absolutely doting grandparents).

I love our arrangement, it gives us the time on the morning to open presents when it works, to arrange when we eat (so we can fit in a walk afterwards before it gets dark so we don't all pass out on the sofa at 3pm!), to fit in a church service (sadly the only time in the year we get to church really). We're building our own family traditions, and the children (always asked where they would like to be on Xmas day) always would rather be in their own home.

No gleam I am definitely an introvert. I just don't think being introverted and seeing Christmas as a day to look after extended family and make sure no one is left unnecessarily or unwillingly on their own, are mutually exclusive.

As am I, wellies. Fair enough, but, for me, spending Christmas Day alone would not be awful.

I'm 70 and love spending Christmas Day on my own. I get a visit from my sister for our once a year chat the week before and I'm then left in peace to eat, drink, read, watch tv, snooze, do what the hell I like.