To think the attitudes of some MNetters towards extended family at Christmas very dispiriting

[welliesandleaves]

There just seems to be a lot of threads here at the moment where posters are being advised to 'do whatever suits you' at Christmas, regardless of how much it hurts the feelings of parents or parents in law.

I realise that sometimes it's just not possible for families to be together on Christmas day, but I actually feel my heart breaking for some of the elderly people who are being left on their own, not because they're toxic or anti social, but because their grown up children or children in law simply can't be bothered to include them. All these comments about wanting to spend Christmas 'with my own family'.

AIBU to find this very depressing and selfish. Surely 'family' includes parents, regardless of whether you now have a partner and children of your own.

I'll only spend Xmas Day will my mum (or no GPs at all)- not because she's my favourite- but because she's the only one who's grandparent to all three of my children.

I won't make my older girls spend Christmas Day with DP's parents because they're not their family and they don't act like it (they're not nasty tho) and I don't think it's fair on my two to make them spend special days somewhere where they won't be as comfortable as with their own nan.

I agree with the OP. I'd hate the thought of someone being excluded at Christmas. I'd feel very sad if it happened to me when I'm older but I've brought my DD up to be close to her GP's and GGP's although they are nice people so that's easier.

I don't think you can generalise. Most threads I read on MN where this is a theme, it's because there is some problem in the relationship. Last thread I read on thisi- last week - an aged aunt was being sidelined because she couldn't change her behaviour for an autistic child. That's a question of whose comfort and happiness is more important, the disabled child whose house it is, or the eldelry relative. Who IIRC wasn't going to be alone either way.

We have no living parents now, DH or me, but I do seriously wonder if my marriage would ahve lasted if we hadn't stopped spending Xmas day with my parents when DS1 was born. They weren't alone - spent Xmas day with my sibling (who didn't seem to mind) and came to us a few days later. My parent s seemed unable to reflect on their own behaviour, and realsie it needed changing.

Sorry, I interpreted 'not possible' as due to geographic or employment constraints.

My parents have my sister, nephew and my bil over every year. I've not had Xmas at their house for 17 years. There's not enough room. Alternate years doesn't seem to be an option as this is the way it's always been. We all live close and I only moved back here three years ago so have missed out on a lot.

I have no grandparents left, my dps parents are both dead. So will be just him, me, my two kids again this year.

I've always had the attitude of if I'm spending christmas at someone's house then they do things their way and I fit in with that. I love Christmas! I get excited about it in october. But I am happy to spend it alone sometimes.

I can't believe people think it's ok to go to someone's hone (family or not) and demand that they do things how you want them. If you want to be in control, then spend christmas in your own home doing it your way. So yes, I tell posters not to put up with demanding relatives descending on them at Christmas.

Christmas is what you chose to make of it. If you're happy having a huge extended family do then great, do that. If you'd rather be cosy at home with partner and kids then great, do that. If you're happy on your own then great, do that. It's supposed to be a happy time of year, it's not worth all the angst some people go through over trying to please everyone.

I hate the idea of getting into a 'rut' about Christmas arrangements - we have done lots of different things - hosted/been guests or my family/DH's family/volunteered/been on holiday/been completely alone as a 'nuclear' family/worked (before having children) - personally I couldn't bear the thought of doing the same thing every year.

And yes, I agree with Flipp - the idea of spending Christmas day on my own is rather attractive. I would hate to receive a 'pity' invitation.

storynanny thank you for understanding and I do think you explained it very well . I agree, I don't think my DH has the same attachment to his DM that I have to mine. I do think it's a female trait. Perhaps the attachment that your DSDs have to you, is why you see more of your DSDs husbands? You must have a lovely relationship with your DSDs, as I have to mine. I know my DM sees my DH more than DMIL does. I concede that geography does play a part, so it's not all DH 'fault' IYSWIM. Thank you for getting my post, I came back on here expecting a flaming .

My own parents don't ever want to spend Christmas anywhere, even though they're warmly invited by both DSis and me, and they don't want to host either. They like their own little Christmas lunch together, then settle down in front of the telly with a whisky and lemonade and a box of chocolates. It suits them, they're happy with it.

In-laws expect to be invited every year (for the last 30 years). They have never, ever, hosted a Christmas Day or Boxing Day lunch for as long as I've known them, and never contribute anything to the lunch they come to us for. They were the same age then as we are now, so there is no excuse that 'they're old'. They haven't always been.

They have never helped with any childcare (my parents live 200 miles away, in-laws live just down the road). I wouldn't normally expect help ; our children, our responsibility, etc, but I was very, very ill about 18 yrs ago, for four months when DC were young, and they didn't lift one single finger to help me, knowing my own parents lived so far away. MiL did some ironing once, but charged me her going rate (she did ironing as a part-time job).

When they do come, I'll say 'Come at around 1:00pm, we'll eat at approx. 3:00pm. FiL says 'Well, that's a funny time to eat, I like to eat earlier than that.' I do stop just short of telling him to fuck off somewhere else if he doesn't like it.

We would actually love a Christmas Day to ourselves once in a blue moon. It wouldn't be like a normal day for us, as DP is self-employed and often works every day of the week, so Christmas Day and Boxing Day would be precious family time for us.

So YABU OP, simply for assuming that all parents and in-laws are going to get their feelings hurt. It's not always the case - they can sometimes be too presumptuous and needy.

Evans it sounds as if it's time to book Christmas and Boxing Day at a hotel.

I know - DP says the same, Troll [santa]

Skimmed thread, but on the subject of the female's family seeming to come first:

i agree that Christmas tends towards being 'femaleistic' because it's the females that tend to do all the graft. The upshot of this can be that there'll end up being a bias towards her own family.

Also generally speaking, woman becoming less prepared to move heaven and earth to try to please everyone every year, just for one day, seems to be a good thing to me.

My parents both fell out with most of their extended family, left my nan out of Xmas plans and moaned if they had to see her at all. They put both their mothers in a home and didn't seem to feel bad about not visiting them. Actively discouraged me and my siblings from visiting 'she won't know your there' etc.

it's only now, as an adult with my own children that I really think about this. In my 20s i also excluded, hardly contacted family, didn't invite anyone but siblings and parents to wedding etc. I feel bad about it now, since I've had kids and try to include my parents in our plans.

The way I see it, I don't want to teach my children that grow ups don't like their parents! I want to set a good example of valuing family and family times, in the hope that they'll feel the same one day!

When I think of our families I couldn't bear any of them to be left out or alone. But that's because they are nice and we love them. I can't speak for other people's families and their personal problems. Years ago I was invited to my ( now ex) boyfriend's for Christmas, everyone was pissed, arguing, things got nasty. It wasn't a Christmas I would want to repeat so can see another viewpoint.

There are the two issues - how you choose to spend Christmas - and I think it is the last time you should be trying to please everyone. Keep it simple, make it easy - that's my view.

Attitude to extended family - I agree. I see DiLs in particular alienating MiLs as if they are not mothers themselves and sons ignoring their parents as if they are no longer important. It's a shame.

Relationships are not simple though

"I don't want to teach my children that grow ups don't like their parents!"

But surely the "like" is either there or it isn't. It's not something you can act really. And who wants to act their way through Christmas Day anyway? I am lucky in that I love spending time with both my parents and my Inlaws and so does DH. But I know that not everyone experiences spending time together as an enjoyable occasion. What I'm saying is that if you DO enjoy each other's company, it's a shame to sAy "oh well we're doing it on our own this year."

I have over the 30 years I have been married hosted Xmas for in laws, outlaws, been to theirs for Xmas, had Xmases with just the four of us.

My FIL is in a care home 250 miles away and is doubly incontinent. I would have him here for Xmas if my DH would change and clean him up - I draw the line at having to do that. But he won't so FIL is staying in the home and we will see him the day after boxing day.

DH & I have been together over a decade. We've never had a Christmas to ourselves. We used to alternate between my parents & the PILs for Christmas. Often we went to both on Christmas day, or one on Christmas day & one on Boxing day. I only get the extra 2 days off at Christmas, so I basically spent my entire holiday with people I'd rather not. Since DD & my nieces have been born, my PILs have assumed an open invitation to our house and that we'd spend the entirety of each Christmas with them, which I couldn't really refuse as my own parents have made it very clear they'd rather spend Christmas with my sister's MIL & family.

So this Christmas we're having the day alone, just DH, DD & me. I'm really looking forward to it. Although I'm pretty certain the PILs will turn up at some point regardless.

We always invite PiLs but when they come, they're moody and unsociable and there's lots of silent fuming at imagined slights and sulking that things aren't done their way. It's very hard work for my parents to try to make conversation with them and it always puts a dampener on Christmas for my family.

This year, PiLs have had a massive falling-out with BiL and SiL, and although DH and I are not getting involved, we have tacitly sided with BiL and SiL and the PiLs know that. So this Christmas will be even more awkward than normal.

So, for the first time, I've asked DH if he would mind if we didn't spend Christmas Day with PiLs. It just seems unfair to my family to have to deal with the fallout of some other family's argument. We're inviting the PiLs on Boxing Day instead (so it's not like we won't be seeing them at all) and I'm thrilled that I won't have to spend the day politely ignoring them.

So, you're a bit U, OP. You don't know all the reasons why people don't get invited at Christmas. Sometimes it's the result of a juggle of competing priorities and it just not being possible to please everybody. We're choosing my lovely, happy, supportive parents over his cold, quarrelsome, disinterested parents, and I won't regret the choice.

YANBU OP.

It's far too varied to be able to generalise though.

IMO there's a lot of people who 'reap what they sew' - I've compared my in-laws and my sisters in-laws on here more than once in the past. dSis's inlaws have always been around - come to watch the dc play football, been there to pick them up from something when it was tricky for parents, had them for over night stays, had them round to make cakes together, taken them out for little treats, baby sat, come round and pottered in the garden with them, etc.,etc.,etc. They are definitely Grandparents who aren't going to be left alone any Christmas, even though the dc are now grown, because each and every grandchild wants to spend time there. If ever my sister & her dh, or his sister and her dh wanted to do something different at Christmas, there'd be a queue of granchildren ready to invite them. OTOH, my in-laws have rarely babysat. They don't have them round 'just because', they don't take them out anywhere, they've never taken them to the picture / bowling / swimming / the park. They've never watched them play football , helped out by attending a school event when we were at work, they've never had them for sleepovers, they don't pick them up from anywhere if we can't, they don't come round and generally potter / spend time with us. I don't, therefore feel any obligation towards them if we decide to do something else at Christmas.

Some people are extended family people and some are nuclear family people. Why should the wants of the extended family people trump those of the nuclear family people?

Thankfully DH and I are both nuclear family people so no conflict there. We are both happy to spend Christmas Day with just us and the DCs. I fully expect that at some point the DCs will want to start to spend Christmas their own way and that will be fine as well.

We spend time with our extended families over the Christmas period but both of us find it exhausting. Too many people crammed into too little space.

YABU. Very. I'm the scarred veteran of some truly dreadful Christmases thanks to divorces on me and my partner's side. When we first got together we spent several whole Christmas Days visiting each of our parents and their new partners plus grandparents - none of whom felt it was necessary to come out to see us. Each of them moaned that they wouldn't have us for more than a couple of hours, totally refusing to see that we had to move on to see everyone in just one day. It was always stressful, tiring bad boring frankly. We've got kids now and finally have an excuse to tell people to come and see us for once. Not that they will. Apparently they'll have had too much to drink. So, based on my own personal anecdotes and experiences, as your original post is, YABU.

If I am lucky enough to have grandkids I wouldn't worry if I don't see them at Christmas. I'm sure I'll want to see them as much as they want to see their presents... the difference being that at the age of 70-something I will probably find it easier than them to wait a few days before I get what I want.

I think a lot of it is down to distance, in a lot of cases. Before having children we had a three year rotation system between our own home and both sets of parents. But now I want to wake up xmas morning in my own home and I want DCs childhood memories of opening presents etc to be there too. I don't want to cart train tables and toy kichens half way across the country just to cart it all back again for the sake of one day.

My parents would never come to us, which I can understand (would mean not seeing other friends and family, and missing their own long standing traditions).

In an ideal world, we would be able to just visit for part of the day, but its just not possible. We do visit at some point over the period.

I think that's just life.