to wonder why the UK is so far behind with ante-natal care?

[hairbrushbedhair]

Just that really. The UK doesn't seem to test or worry about things that other countries take more seriously. I know we have a NHS and it's down to cost probably, so it's likely I am BU

YANBU. Shitty care led to my son being born blue, getting separated as he was transferred to a different hospital but there wasn't enough staff for me and I wasn't priority and he now has possible mild neurological damage. I repeatedly said my son wasn't moving as much and was fobbed off as an anxious mother. I was told I wasn't in labour because I was only 1cm dialated even though I have a family history of failure to progress. I was told DS wasn't in distress which was clearly bullshit because he had severe meconium aspiration.

I am appalled by what happened

I had extra scans in pregnancy. For a problem that didn't exist. It was very stressful. No benefits whatsoever.

I've read a lot of pointlessly high interventions stories to do with some of the antenatal screening. Glad I wasn't pressure to have those tests.

I feel the UK has a good balance between necessary & possible testing & screens.

Choc I had the opposite. Consultant led too, had regular scans but even when my sons growth dropped off and his movements decreased no one bothered to do anything.

My post natal care however was brilliant. I was given a private room with ensuite, DS was cared for exceptionally well, no one made me feel shit for being unable to breastfeed. There was always a midwife available and nothing was too difficult

Medicare steps in the covers all pregnant women in the US who don't have the assets to pay for care.

Some women may be covered by Medicaid (not Medicare, that is for retirees), but this is not always true. The exact rules and coverage are determined by state and many states opted out of a recent bill to extend the care offered.

Actually illegals have full access to medical care as they are considered American from conception onwards.

Once the child is born, as a US citizen, it will be eligible for medicaid/medicare coverage in its own right. While the mother is pregnant, though, that is not necessarily the case. Illegal immigrants, for example, would not get these benefits, even if pregnant. I assume they're not eligible for the WIC nutrition program either (again, presumably the baby would be, once born). They are also probably not eligible to buy their own insurance through Obamacare (I believe there's been some debate around that).

Bear in mind that even if someone does, in theory, have health insurance coverage, there is usually still a substantial out of pocket cost to be paid before the insurance will kick in. For example, we have a plan with a 3k deductible (for our family). That means we have to pay out $3000 each year before the insurance kicks in and pays anything. If I was on a low income, I might well have to forgo all but the most basic of antenatal tests in order to minimize my out of pocket costs, especially since I might have to take unpaid leave from work in order to have my baby. In fact I would say that those on a low income who are not eligible for government benefits are probably the most at-risk groups. From what I understand, Medicaid does provide reasonable coverage if you have it. However, if you're not eligible for that, cannot afford health insurance (or cannot afford your deductible) then that seems a bigger problem to me. I can see many low income parents choosing to opt out of pre-natal tests in order to save money.

As a sonographer I know a lot of the scans we do are uneccessary and largely to reassure the patient especially in the early stages of pregnancy. They are on the rise also. It is getting more rare to see a patient at 12 weeks who hasn't already had a scan. I am not against reassurance scans. I have had them myself but they do cost money. I think eventually every one will also have a third trimester scan. I don't think this is a bad thing in one way as you can pick up the odd thing you would never have known about otherwise but people need to realise scans are not the be all and end all. And people get more scans in places like the us because he hospitals make money out of it not because they actually need it.

I think it is a bit too generalised to say the antenatal care in the UK is a bit 'lacking'. It all depends on the trust, hospital and consultants and midwives who are involved in your care. Also we are brilliant in some aspects and dismal in other areas compared to other countries. But no country is perfect when it comes to healthcare. A bit like 'averages', you will ALWAYS have a health trust or a country who is bottom of the so-called league when it comes to healthcare and antenatal care to be precise.

During my 1st pregnancy it was discovered my placenta was low at my 20 week scan. Apart from that, it was a normal pregnancy despite testing positive for GBS at 28 weeks and high BP at 32 weeks that resolved itself. At 36 weeks I had a 'routine' scan to check the position of the placenta. Call it mothers intuition but I asked if the baby was okay and was snapped at immediately with the reply "We're not here to check that". But whether it was me or whether the rude sonographer had already spotted it, there was a problem. It turned out my baby wasn't growing and my placenta was failing. The midwife had done my fundal height but this is often disregarded as being unreliable by many sources but in my case, it was spot on. I was monitored with weekly scans and 2 days before my due date, I was induced. If it hadn't have been for quick thinking and action by medical staff both me and DS would not be here. I had a placenta abruption brought on by a rare reaction to the pessary which resulted in violent contractions and thus tore my uterus literally seconds before my son was pulled from me. He was seconds from death because there was no blood in the cord and I lost quite a lot of blood too.

Had it not been for my 36 week scan, the problem would NEVER have been detected and my surgeon, during my debrief, said that I was high risk for loosing my DS sue to insufficient blood flow from the placenta anyways! It was not in a good condition during the crash section that I then had.

My second pregnancy was considered high risk due to the abruption and the tear. My consultant and midwives agreed from the start that my decision for an ELCS was the best one and I was monitored a lot. At 28 weeks, everything was fine. DD was following the 91st centile. Six weeks later at another scan, all hell broke loose! She had dropped to the 9th centile and I was admitted. My placenta was failing though she was in good condition considering! My waters were also decreasing to the point of none by 36 weeks and my ELCS became an EMCS (without as much panic as the first one!) DD was born small but healthy. My uterus was in a crap state due to the high level of trauma it received during labour number one!

Considering the 'heel prick test' tests for diseases that in the general population are not that common (yet life threatening) then so should GBS. DS was placed in special care with a GBS infection because I couldn't receive all antibiotics during the labour. He's fine now. GBS kills far more children than most of the diseases the heel prick test, tests for.

Also every woman should have a late pregnancy scan to check for continued healthy growth, fluid levels and a doppler to check the health of the placenta and cord. It would prevent a lot of stillbirths; not all but a lot of babies wouldn't die so needlessly. Not doing it puts very little emphasis, care and concern on the life of newborns.

If it hadn't have been for ANY of my scans post 20 weeks, none of my problems would have been detected and both children could have ended up as being stillbirths.

Luckily for me my children are healthy but my uterus is not. it is in such shit condition that a pregnancy would end early (30 weeks) either naturally ending in labour or an ELCS brought early. My baby making days are over. But in a nutshell, I cannot complain regarding the care I received during my pregnancies BUT a lot more can be done across the entire NHS to improve antenatal care of mums and newborns.

Vim Are you American or live in the US? I ask because the programs are federally funded. All states have to supply care but can do so under different programs. As an example, Florida does not offer federal care for the first child but does for subsequent children. Also, planned parenthood does a lot of work in the 11 states with no coverage for the first child. They either buy an insurance package through the healthcare exchange or if illegal show up. Planned parenthood get a huge federal grant to cover this service in the states that don't have coverage for the first child. It is why the move by the far right republicans to block their grant being funded was fought so hard, even by those in their own party.

I am British but I've lived in the US for the past 5 years, I had my son here.

Tali that sounds so similar to me. I was 3cm since the Saturday morning I was having regular contractions down to every 1min 40 seconds that would last for hours and then stop. I kept telling the midwives I need my waters breaking, that in all three of my previous labours I didn't get past 3-4 cm without my waters being broken. I was told they wouldn't break my waters, if she was born in the waters then so be it. My contractions were put down to niggles in the right direction. By the Thursday my tiny daughter was dead. They broke my waters. When I was pushing her out they told me to listen to my body becuase I know my body best, funny how they weren't in agreement when I needed them to be. By then it was too late.

I have a friend pregnant in the UK at the moment, and we are pretty much at the same stage of our respective pregnancies. She is totally happy with her care and experiences so far, but I find it almost unbelievable the bare minimum testing/care she is receiving compared to what I am getting (either very very heavily subsidised or totally paid for by the state).

To be honest I think it might be partly down to a personal attitude towards pregnancy and birth.

In the UK there seems to be a big thing of the best possible, ideal birth experience being some drug free, mother nature, "daisy breathing" hippy fest, with as little medical involvement as possible, and getting home as soon as possible if a home birth wasn't an option.

Over here, the big thing is about being very carefully monitored to ensure any problems are caught at the earliest moment, going to a hospital to give birth, where most people very gratefully embrace the epidural as soon as possible, then stay in hospital for a week afterwards to ensure a proper recovery, that there are no problems with mother or baby, and to enable some rest time. Post natal rooms are either individual or shared with one other, and partners aren't allowed (unless it's an individual room).

I think most women will have a natural inclination for one type of experience over the other. Neither is wrong, but I think it would be difficult to understand a differing preference IYSWIM

3littlebadgers I'm so sorry for your loss. At one point I thought I was going to lose DS and it was the worst feeling of my life, I can't imagine how it must be for you.

That's very similar to what happened to me. I had a show on Thursday, contractions on Friday, I was admitted with contractions that had me screaming on the floor on Sunday. The CTG showed regular contractions but I wasn't dialating. I was a booked c section, and asked them to move the date (I was 37 weeks). They refused and told me to take paracetamol. The pain got so severe I could hardly breathe and DS movements stopped. I went on the CTG which showed a massive decrease in movements (I was being monitored as I'd had threatened labour earlier) but because it was still in the normal range no one would do anything. At this point Tuesday I was hysterical and screaming for something to be done. I was given pethidine, told to stop being silly and was sent home on Wednesday.

Next Tuesday I had my c section. DS didn't cry, was blue, had aspirated loads of meconium and wasn't breathing at all. I had to watch him being resuscitated while numb and unable to move. They called a crash team and he was shoved in an incubator and taken to SCBU, later he had to be transferred to another hospital as a chest x ray showed severe lung issues. I got to see him for 5 minutes. I was told it wasn't priority to transfer me with him even though he could have died and I'd have had no way to get there to him.

He now may have neurological damage from the birth. I'm still waiting for a debrief to find out what the fuck happened (I KNOW what happened, they didn't listen to me).

I know so many women who had horrible experiences because midwives didn't listen to them. It's disgusting.

The SANDS meetings are full of them. I really hope your DS pulls through and there are no lasting effects of his birth.

3littlebadgers luckily he'll be fine, I dread to think what would have happened had I decided to try for a natural birth. I asked for the c section due to family history of traumatic birth - thank god I did.

It's so unfair what happened to you. I know I shouldn't but I get really angry when I see people complaining about "over medicalisation" of pregnancy and too much intervention. Had you had the intervention you needed your outcome could have been much better and had I had it DS wouldn't have suffered. Easy to moan about it when you didn't need it

In countries where everyone has a Group B Strep test the rates of death of babies from group B Strep has halved. I thought of that a lot in the 2 weeks I visited my son in neonatal when he had septicaemia and possible meningitis. I also thought about the fact my request for a test had been refused. Unnecessary.

And I'm a lucky mum. Condolences to mums on here who have lost their babies. There is always room for improvement.

I know I feel the same. When the consultants (I'm 26 weeks pregnant again) try to tell me that they are 'looking after me this time', as a way of making me feel better, I just want to scream. I don't care how medicalised this pregnancy and birth are, I just don't want another tiny grave.

Sycamor I wonder how many mums like you asked for the test, to be refused and to have to watch your child suffer as a result? I hope your son will be Ok.

3littlebadgers it's awful you have to have a tragedy before they'll do anything. I hope this pregnancy is going well.

3littlebadgers -

I'm pregnant with DC3. Ante-natal care is pretty bad but post-natal is even worse. I've now been diagnosed with a high risk pregnancy. I was quite ill with a bad UTI and the baby was measuring substantially ahead. This was only picked up at my 34 week midwife appointment which by pure chance one of the three gonks who are the normal community midwives didn't take. By 34 weeks, I had never had my urine dipped or fundal height measured as they had always run outbid dipsticks and could never find a tape measure. I've now been diagnosed with polyhydramnios and the baby's predicted birth weight is over 11bs.

My DH is a predominantly NHS dentist so he understands the limits on the system but even he has been shocked at the total lack of care and attention. My notes simply used to say "fine". That was the only entry.

Even now, when I'm meant to be receiving "better" care. I still get consultant appointments with no scan booked. I have to call up and am bounced from person to person - usually I'm told by the fourth person I speak to that no one is "authorised" to sort out the issue. No one ever offers to take charge and find someone who can help. There is a total lack of accountability or personal responsibility. It's only by threatening to speak to the SOM that anything gets done.

I went to see the consultant last week and the clinic was running 4 hours late - honestly.

You go to check in at reception and have to wait - sometimes for over 5 minutes - with no acknowledgement at all that you are there whilst the admin staff leisurely finish their totally non-work related conversation.

I find it shocking

Vim DH and I do work with the boys and girls club which are quite active in advocating for the children born to families in poverty. This work lead us to being exposed to the work done by Planned Parenthood. It isn't talked about much but they really fill in the gaps and often what you find is that pregnancy for the first child isn't covered because it would give the state too much of a funding gap which the state would then have to fill. By having planned parenthood come in and provide the service its still paid for at the federal level. Here in NJ we are lucky that we have huge revenues compared to southern states who also have much higher numbers of illegals that have zero coverage.

I have learned here that when you think you understand American you don't. They really shout capitalism but I have found the opposite in almost every single case. I had no health insurance for a few months before I married DH. I needed to see the doctor and when I told him I didn't have insurance he asked what I could afford, telling me he charged the insurance company $120. My script was $4 from that evil empire called walmart.

A couple of my friends have had awful experiences in the UK and I found the lack of care to be frightening. They were not listened to and had midwives who expected them to 'just get on with it'. I had a friend who had a stillborn a couple of months ago and its very raw for me and I know they are barely coping. It was her first and she didn't feel like things were right but listened to the stupid midwife who said to sleep on it. Another friend lost her baby a week after delivery. She had a forcep delivery and when she showed us her son on Skype half of his head was blue and you could see the marks from the forceps on his head. She was having issues feeding him and the HV wasn't really helping saying things like 'your milk will come in, just give it time'. I am not a doctor but I do know that if a child isn't taking to the breast and has a huge bruise on its head there is a chance there is something else wrong and it should be ruled out. I advised her to go back to the hospital with the baby but she called and was told not to be silly and everything was fine, her milk would come in eventually. On day five he had a fit and died at home. Quite frankly there is no way that baby should have been sent home from the hospital 12 hours after delivery. He should have been monitored and tests should have been done to ensure he didn't have any neurological issues from the delivery. Instead they are so concerned about targets and averages rather than providing the best care for each patient. Both cases were in different hospitals at different ends of the country.

Oh - and then women are set up to fail with inductions where they are forced to labour without support in bright, noisy busy wards where they don't feel safe or supported before being carted off for drips and instrumental deliveries/sections when - surprise surprise - inductions don't work.

It's as though someone had thought, "these are women who are going through an artificial process and are already on the back foot anyway. What are all the things that we know get labour started and help it to progress? Well, let's not do them".

I've said it before but I find it hard to get over-exercised about bounty reps on post-natal wards when there are women on labour wards being deprived of the support of partners in horrible communal surroundings whilst being induced

3littlebadger I am so sorry for your loss. My friend and her family is going through a very hard time right now and its horrible to see the effects. She was 38 weeks along and my heart breaks for them, especially their older child who was so excited to meet their sibling. It really hurts to see a friend go through this and I hope your pregnancy and delivery go perfectly.

Gobbolino I had that with scans not being booked, ridiculous waiting times, no one being able to sort it out...it's awful.

Re postnatal I found it depends on the hospital. When DS was born the care was shit - I got berated by a midwife for asking for pain relief because I'd "only had a c section", told if I really wanted to see my baby I'd discharge myself (he was in the NICU at a different hospital) and that could I hurry up because they needed the bed. This was about 18 hours post op.

In the morning I was dragged out of bed, when I said the pain was too much and could I try later was told no, she roughly pulled me up and knocked my catheter, started taking my clothes off to "get me dressed" even though I was crying and saying no and told me "if you stop moaning I'll take you in a wheelchair to see your baby" at which point I lost it and screamed at her. she hadn't even had the courtesy to check where my baby was before saying such an insensitive comment.

When I was transferred to the other hospital the care was excellent. Lots of staff, private room. I had my painkillers switched and had no issues with pain and was back to normal in 2 days.

Reading this back, the hospital where I had DS was shockingly bad

I declined GBS testing when I had a baby in the USA. I don't think it should be a routine test for everyone.

I don't think it should be a routine test for everyone.

Have you ever seen your baby being hooked up to machines with suspected sepsis? If that can be avoided even for 1 person it is worth it

Gin Glad it worked out for you. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it on the quiet and never told you. The doctors here are petrified of a malpractice lawsuit. I let them do the all the tests that are minimally invasive that they need to have performed to cover themselves professionally.

The GBS is a simple swab test that costs next to nothing to perform. Takes them 2 mins to perform it and is not invasive at all. If they find an issue it can easily be dealt with.