Run out of ideas - what do i do next?

[itsnotterrysitsmine]

DS1 is fast approaching his 4th birthday and we are having massive problems with him still pooing in his pants.

So as not to drip feed, and to give background, we started potty training with him back in February, not long after his 3rd birthday. All signs of readiness were there (knew he was having / needed a wee or poo, was very interested, able to control / hold it). Within a few days he'd mastered weeing and even telling us he needed to go and has been completely dry since except for the odd accident.

Pooing on the other hand has been something of a challenge. He's never been constipated and has been so regular you could set your watch by him. His usual time is literally first thing in the morning, as in he's already pooed in his nappy before we have even had time to open the bedroom door, which has made quite difficult to get him to go on the toilet or potty.

He has done poo's on the toilet and potty, but has never been 100% reliable. However, since July he just won't poo on the toilet or potty at all. He has soiled himself several times at nursery and school, and at home.

Initially we tried ignoring and just doing the never 'never mind next time we'll get it in the potty / toilet', rewards charts, encouragement, praise, rewards etc, sitting him on the toilet at regular times but with no pressure to poo just sit but he is at the point where he is even refusing to just sit on the toilet at all. When we have had a poo, he's done a bit, got off the toilet and then within 30 minutes done the rest in his pants.We've talked to him about it, and he understands that that you poo on the toilet, but when he needs to he doesn't tell us, hides and does it in his pants. When we've asked him why he didn't tells us or do it on the toilet we've had a variety of reactions from him laughing, shrugging his shoulders, saying it hurts, he doesn't want to, we poo in our pants and everything else in between.

I've just had 2 weeks at home with him and have been trying to work on this this with him, we've got a special reward chart just for poos and he's been promised a special reward for when he's done 5 poo's, lots of encouragement etc and not a single poo.Today we hit a new low where he'd been put in his room for some time out, and when I went to get him out he'd trashed his room, pooed in his pants and had smeared it over EVERYTHING. I have just spent the last hour cleaning it all up and sorting out his clothes while DH has showered him.

What the hell do I do now? I'm at a complete loss as to hep him with this.

Have you tried an enormous bribe? DS still had five dummies a dummy at 4, and one day in the car he mentioned a Super Mario game. We said, 'you can swap it for the dummies'. That was that.

Thank you for that, I'm having a look as we speak !

Pooing in nappy could maybe progress to pooing in open nappy laid in potty? Apparently some kids just don't like the feeling of the poo leaving them after being used to feeling it against their body.

I feel desperately sorry for you as I know that sense of frustration only too well. TBH your DS sounds a bit like mine!

My DS just turned 4. I tried to toilet train him a few times in the run up to turning 3 and he was completely and utterly resistant to the idea. Absolutely point blank refused - it wasn't that he didn't get it, but that this was too much of a change. I stopped then and tried again a couple of weeks before he turned 3. Straight away, he was perfect with weeing - not even one accident. But he only went standing up - never even sat on potty. TBH I think this resistance to sitting down, came against him then with poo-training as he did not like the sensation of sitting on the toilet and often mentioned his fear of falling in. He definitely did not like the 'drop' either. So poo training was a huge battle. Didn't want to sit on the toilet/potty. So for 6 months on went a battle to persuade DS to go on the toilet. I ignored it for a while and he would go stand in the corner to do his business. Eventually as the months went on I did scold him and I did point out that all his buddies go on the toilet etc, and hey presto he started to go on the toilet. I never punished him but I was stern/firm and sometimes cross. It took a while - 6 months.

DS is very strong willed and is very head strong with his ideas and approaches to things. There is no persuading him to change his mind - it's very difficult to influence him. He can be a pure angel, but we go toe to toe regularly. Turning 4 I really would have hit the roof with the trashing and smearing you have described in your post. Maybe that isn't the right thing to do according to the parenting books but I could not let that go without letting my child know how wrong it is and letting him know how much it has upset me.

I have experience of two sides of this toilet training coin - one child a nightmare the train and another who was simply a case of taking of her nappy. It's pot luck.

If I were you I would probably take a step back for a few weeks - for all your sakes. Let him do whatever. When he poos in his pants bring him to the toilet, change him in front of it, turn his pants into the toilet and tell him sternly poo belongs in pooland. if you want to go the nappy route, leave some pull ups in his room and tell him he's free to use them for poo if he wants.

Have you told the girls in his play school to bring him to the toilet with his buddies when they are going?

This will pass. This will pass. I know it doesn't feel like that now, but it will.

My DS also hated pooing in a toilet, and it took him a few months from when he was in pants to do it.

The things that worked for us were having him use a portable potty/toilet seat (called Potette Plus) that you can buy from Amazon and put liners in. He then eventually progressed onto the toilet, using the Potette as a toddler toilet seat. If you think that the splash from the toilet when he poos bothers him, teach him to put a couple of sheets of toilet roll over the water first so that doesn't happen.

If he is pooing really early in the morning, maybe set up the potty in his bedroom, so he can use it, then come and find you. My DS likes his "privacy", and will only poo when no-one else is in the room.

My DD refused to poo in the toilet initially and the more attention I gave it (with reward charts etc) the more anxious she got.
So I took a step back and let her wear pull ups and I told her she could use the toilet if she wanted to, and after about a month she decided by herself she'd use the toilet.
It helps I they see their peers using the toilet.

Could you go to pull ups - maybe he could sit on the toilet in his pull-ups to poo? Rather than making him sit on the toilet for periods say that he can wear pull-ups to poo abut he has to be sat on the toilet? Take some of the battle out of it so he feels comfortable associating the loo with the poo without the pressure?

Has anyone suggested the story of Poo goes to Pooland? My DD had issues for just a couple of weeks, and this story helped. PM me if you haven't had this simple but possibly effective story book (it's free - no gimmicks).

Because he'd been being very silly (typical 3yr old behaviour), stomped off in a strop when he was told to stop being silly or wr wouldn't be going out, then came back in the room & screamed at me & dh, hit me, was told if he carried on then he would be having time out, he screamed at us again then hit & pinched me. Hence the time out.

I'm just going to advise you look up Janet Lansbury.

(If a 3 year ol

Bloody phone.

(If a 3 year old can't be silly, who the fuck can? It probably wasn't silly to him, so your behaviour may well have belittled him.)

Doubt very much the smearing was intentional. It would have been accidental.

Children aren't always ready when we want / think / need it. My two eldest (boys!) were hopeless with wet accidents til about 5. No poo accidents and dry at night but frequent dampness and all out wetting during the day. Soooo frustrating! So difficult to remain calm and understand. Very worrying when starting school. But then it suddenly stops. When you're going through it it feels like forever and then it's over.

Do whatever you can to make your life easier and know it won't always be like this!

I too have cried clearing up smeared poo. Don't get bogged down in it; while it is utterly grim and I don't think it's very common, it is an understandable thing for him to do in that situation. Children will wee in defiance when put on the naughty step. It's the same thing. He obviously knows how to push your buttons, as do most 3 year olds.

My first suggestion is let him have a nappy for poos as already mentioned. Take him to the GP to check for constipation with 'breakthrough' leaking, which can happen. Assuming all ok on that, I think I'd take it back to basics. Half an hour before his normal pooing time, give him a meal or a decent snack and drink. At his normal pooing time, give him a nappy, put him in front of a favourite tv programme, about 10 mins long, and tell him to try to do a poo. Lots of praise etc etc if he does. It is also really important that he keep trying and do a decent size poo, not just a little one. Explain the new pattern and that it is to help to keep his pants clean. If he poos, if you can bear it, it might help for you both to take the nappy to the loo, flick the poo off and flush it away, just to normalise the poo dropping for him. (I had 2 DC in cloth nappies so it's normal for me!) After a good couple of weeks see if he can move his body position, either to sitting on the potty in his nappy or at least moving a bit closer to a sitting position. Then gradually move to loosening the nappy, then placing it on the potty, etc etc. You might not even need to go that slowly because he does know what to do, but a routine will help manage the problem and help him to understand the sensations. We found TV really helped, books were too exciting and DC couldn't relax, whereas TV helped DC zone out and 'let go'.

The fact that he is regular is fabulous and will be the key to managing this until it can be sorted out completely. Honestly, he is still so little.

We used to try after lunch each day, and if no poo, repeat after every meal (or big snack and drink) until poo was achieved. Then break for about 24h, but always working towards that routine of poo after lunch. Sorry for the epic post, it's a cause close to my heart!!

I disagree with the idea that you try to take control of when he poos, or start up some routine where you expect him to try at a certain time and insist that he do a big poo etc. He's 3, he's had some accidents, it's really not necessary to treat him like he's got some huge problem. I'm not sure I could do a poo under those kind of conditions, talk about pressure!

Scale back all the pressure, I'd say. A nappy when he needs one, or when you think he might, if he's not talking about it, or when it would be too, too awful to manage pooy pants and he hasn't been at his normal time. And affect disinterest, "just poppi g a nappy on in case your poo comes, darling," with no panic if he says no, -"okay, I'll bring it with us, you let me know when you need it". I really think low key, treating it like it's a non-issue (because developmentally, it really is a non-issue) is the way forward

Thank you all so much for your kind words & advice. From today were going to completely not put any pressure in any format on him about poo. If he does it, great, if not then it's not an issue. We've told him if he wants to poo he can have a nappy to do it in & I'm going to get some pull ups to put next to the toilet in the bathroom do he can do it himself if he wants.

Ds did his first poo on a potty in a holiday home after struggling at home. The change in routine must have cracked it.

At the time it seemed a huge thing to crack. Looking back, why worry about it? He's not going to be wearing nappies at 18. Take the pressure off you all.