Not wanting my children to visit BIL with poor hygiene and possible recurring MRSA

[captainproton]

DH and I have had a bit of a row last night as BIL (his brother) has another sore on his skin which requires ABs. His GP has told BIL it's unlikely to be recurrence of MRSA he had in summer, which required surgical drainage and strong ABs and nasal spray. At the time I was early pregnancy and did my nut at DH wanting my 2 and 3 year old visiting because of BIL filthy hygiene.

I have been round to his flat once after it cleared up, after I told DH I wasn't going until he disinfected the whole flat. I am not convinced this ever happened. When I last visited BIL had no hand soap in bathroom or kitchen, no sign of his bathroom or kitchen being cleaned regularly. The man went 6 months without owning a Hoover fgs and it was full of dust that DH had to beg him to buy one (prior MRSA).

I know some people never overcome MRSA and always have to deal with outbreaks on their skin, I don't know how BIL GP can just say by looking at this sore it's not MRSA, surely they would need to test it?

In the meantime I have thrown a big fit at DH as BIL meant to visit us here tomorrow, but if a man who doesn't own soap has a possible recurring MRSA infection (in my head anyway) I doubt they will be suddenly exhibiting good hygiene habits like keeping the sore covered and hands clean.

Anyway DH has cancelled it, and we've agreed to leave the conversation now until we hear if BIL has overcome this sore and it goes away without turning nasty with MRSA again.

I feel worried my children were there last weekend, I didn't go I find the place too filthy. I bathed the kids as soon as they got home that place is disgusting. DSS stayed over, I doubt he had a clean towel or bedding.

AIBU? I think I need to know for my own sanity, baby due in a couple of months and I can't even begin to think about taking a baby to visit BIL.

I feel bad for DH, BIL and him are very close he goes over to stay twice a month (about an hour away) and they used to live together. And yes DH did all the house keeping as even he thought his brother was a tad grim at the time.

I don't want to turn this into an issue if it's not and I don't want to cause a rift, but likewise I don't want my children or i catching MRSA.

In the interests of not drip feeding I have an autoimmune disease (undifferentiated) which Makes me super sensitive about hygiene as regular colds etc can turn into serious chest infections. Hence why
I do wash my hands an awful lot, and the kids, and carry alcohol hand gel everywhere to avoid getting sick. I do view folks who don't own soap as irresponsible carriers of nasty germs, MRSA or otherwise.

There are two sepaeate issues here. Firstly, the MRSA. Its actually a really common bug that loads of people carry on their skin, but if you are well with no wounds etc then it is unlikely to cause you trouble. Its only a problem when it gets into a wound etc and refuses to budge.
The cleanliness is a separate issue, and for that I think many people will agree to stay away.

Could you check with your GP? If this is an ongoing situation for your BIL it might help to have a clearer picture of what the risks are and what precautions you might need to take if you're in contact with him, especially if you might be immunocompromised.

In the meantime, it's probably not helping if you're 'doing your nut' and 'throwing a big fit'. Your BIL is your DH's brother and your children's uncle, and even if you think his living conditions are filthy it's not really appropriate to block all contact with him, especially if his GP says he doesn't have MRSA. Most children can be in bacteria-infested places (parks, schools etc) safely enough without succumbing to infection.

Overall YANBU, I know this must be a sensitive issue for BIL and most people with great hygiene catch MRSA (well, develop an issue with it as everyone carries it on their skin) but it's also a fact that poor hygiene spreads disease and whatever that disease might be I certainly wouldn't want to catch it. Soap in bathrooms and the kitchen is common hygiene, if that's not even been done then I dread to think what the rest of the flat is like.

Yes, it's unpleasant for your DH but I'd do exactly the same as you. Of course children can live in all manner of germs and be fine but I think that's because of what they've previously been exoposed to. I don't think exposing your children to so many germs that they're clearly not in contact with on a regular basis is healthy at all. They could become very ill, and so could you. It may not be a serious issue like MRSA but honestly, who wants to deal with that for the sake of not upsetting a grown adult who can't impose hand washing in his own flat upon himself!?

I'd contact the GP, for the sake of his health but then I'd speak to him about the state of his flat and discuss what he's going to do about it. He might need help, in which case provide it in whatever way he needs, but tackling him on it is also for the good of his health. Leaving it for the sake of not offending is taking the 'easy' way out.

For sake of clarity, doing my nut was the last resort. DH was very blasé about BIL infection last time, a quick google on reputable sites clearly stated the importance of good hygiene when dealing with an active MRSA infection. I did it once before over his sports car, when 8 months pregnant with our first and he was delaying selling it for something you could actually fit a small buggy in. He will let things drift sometimes for an easy life. I didn't scream hysterically just left him in no doubt there was an expectation of situation changing and I wasn't prepared to compromise.

If I catch it I am sure I will always have it, I can't shake colds off easily so I do think I would break out in sores everytime I was under the weather.

DH has said he won't talk to BIL about his hygiene anymore as Last time he did, BIL took major offence. He wants me to do it if I Am against visiting his flat again.l

I would arrange to meet him at another place, a pub lunch or something. I wouldn't go to the grubby house, sorry. And I wouldn't want him in my house. Again, sorry.

Poor guy, though. Does the filth bother him? Or is he one of those people who just doesn't care?

He's oblivious and unlikely to change he's late 40's, single (I wonder why), and set in his ways.

His flat has the potential to be something Amazing as it's the penthouse, with views across a lot of the area. MIL and I are united in our opinion that he needs to sort it out but we both accept he won't.

Which is fine I suppose but don't get upset of relatives don't want to visit you.

YANBU to not want you or your children to hang about somewhere dirty with no soap. You are right about infection but its more likely to be stuff like the cold or diarrhoea that
will cause you problems.
Its been a while since I worked in a
related area but as far as I can
remember MRSA doesn't pose any
immediate threat to you in the
circumstances you describe.

However, I'm just a random poster
on the internet so for
real peace of mind run this past your
midwife who can access her local
infection control team - they are fab
at this kind of thing.
So in summary, he's a minger, its NBU to not want to go round, have a chat with your midwife, job done, ddon't panic

You sound very very anxious. MRSA is in a huge proportion of the population without symptoms, and poses no problem unless it presents as a secondary infection.

I think the mrsa isn't the problem. But otherwise yanbu I worry about hygiene generally in other people's houses and this sounds awful

Are you sure it is MRSA and not just bog standard SA?
I'm a SA carrier. If it flares up (I get lesions inside my nose) it has naff all to do with my hygiene levels or how clean my house is.

And I've cuddled an awful lot of adults, children and babie over the years without passing it on to anyone.

This does sound pretty extreme Op, but immune systems need a certain amount of challenge to function effectively. If you 'protect' your DCs from germs to an excessive extent, then they will never have sufficient defences against day to day exposure.

I see this so often in parents, they sterilise everything and avoid germy environments because thir DCs go down with every bug around. The reality is that they are vulnerable precisely because they haven't been exposed to germs to build their immune systems.

Obviously only you know the ituation OP, but you do sound quite anxious, I hope you find a solution x

You see manor I disagree. One of my neighbours is of the 'let them eat mud' / unhygienic house variety and her children seem to have a minimum of 2 tummy bugs per year......

School/ nursery is plenty too build up immunity.

He definitely had MRSA in summer, he had a cyst on his torso that wouldn't stop weeping, it was getting worse even though he was on ABs, he went into hospital to have it removed, they took swabs of it. They contacted him as soon as they discovered it was MRSA. He had to go into the clinic daily for wound care.

This time around it might not be MRSA, but he did phone DH to say it looked like it had come back, he's hot some ABs an time will tell if it clears up.

NHS website talks about how when you have these MRSA skin infections you have to have good hygiene so not to spread it friends and family. This is what freaks me out, if you don't own soap after you've just had an outbreak of MRSA, how can he be exercising good hygiene?

If ever gets admitted to hospital he has to tell them he has had MRSA, I don't think it's something to take lightly. I had about 6 courses of ABs last year for lots of chest and sinus infections and they completely wrecked my body whilst at the same time healing me. I have to be careful not to get sick. It's not so easy for me to recover from any illness.

I am anxious and I will chat with the midwife. If I knew BIL would visit us with a proper dressing on his sore, wash his hands properly when here and use his own towel etc I wouldn't mind. But I doubt he will.

And yes last time we went to his a couple of months ago after the MRSA had supposedly cleared up he was cooking us chicken. I went to the corner shop and bought soap and kitchen spray and sponge because I just couldn't face food poisoning.

Oh OP i'm with you here.

I think under the circs. (this being your DHs brother) then you will have to sit down and come to an amicable agreement over this asap. Keep it to the point and don't drag up the past too much.

There are compromises which could work here.

DH wants regular contact with his brother. In my opinion you are within your rights to not want to visit the flat, but your DH is free to visit his brother as often as he likes obviously.

Would i like the DCs going to the flat? No. I think i'd insist on that.

You are on shakier ground refusing to let BIL in your own house, but perhaps can you look upon this as an easier way to facilitate the children seeing their uncle and staying more in control of the situation maybe? Subtly keep any towels/linen that BIL might use separate for the day/weekend for eg.

YANBU. I'm not the best of housekeepers but I at least try. I have a relative with a dirty house (I haven't been in for years, but others have said its still as bad) and there's no chance I'd be letting DD in there.

Each to their own, tobys.

I guess I prefer to build immunity young so DD doesn't miss out on her education.

There is a spectrum though, with folk like op at one end and people like the BIL at the other. Neither extreme is really healthy.

My dds were in nursery from 1 year and 9 months respectively...... so it really never was an issue

That's very sad.

They close hospital wards as soon as they find MRSA. The op has low immunity. If the BIL touches a weeping wound, which he is bound to I would think at some point, and then touches anything else. Chair arm, door knob, toilet seat, toilet flush he can spread the infection (I would think because why close wards if it doesn't spread easily).

I would speak to GP or practice nurse for info - hopefully they will advise staying away, don't skimp on a description of BIL's habits - that holds much more power rather than you seeming hysterical.

Once DCs are at school or nursery possibly visit but I wouldn't before that and certainly not with a baby.

op I am with you.

I also agree if he doesnt want to make the effort to at least clean BEFORE guests arrive and PROVIDE SOAP then dont expect guests.

I have a lived in house, shall we say, we are SHOES ON here too, but I usually do a tidy before guests come, so they dont have to wade through our crap. This includes making loo acceptable, cleaning sink and so on.

Its rude to you as guests.

I am guessing however there are other issues at play here, depression, I dont know but it doesnt sound normal.

I had to tolerate a house that was not as clean as I would like last weekend and it was stressful watching the DC and making sure they didnt touch certain things and the loo was a 100% no go area. BUT there was soap and the person does try and clean and there were areas of cleanliness

don't skimp on a description of BIL's habits - that holds much more power rather than you seeming hysterical

the way you phrased this made me

YANBU.

I don't think this guy is being a caring uncle by not making an effort to keep his home clean when the kids visit. I don't think you should feel pressured to allow your children into a dirty house with known MRSA (which IIRC can survive on fomites if not disinfected). In addition you have an AI condition AND you're pregnant so you should not be exposed either. You don't have live in a sterile bubble but the volume of pathogens is important (I believe from watching Obsessive Compulsive Cleaners there is a Health and Safety rule with a maximum number of pathogens allowed for something to be clean enough to eat off, for example).

I also don't think it's fair for you to feel forced to allow him in your home. It's your sanctuary. If he wants to come he should agree to keep his wound covered and use alcohol gel before he comes in. There are ways to ask this tactfully.

I don't know if I'm getting this right here, but I thought that a lot of people carry mrsa, so the op could already be a carrier, and it only becomes a problem if they have a wound and mrsa infects it. I was under the impression that it doesn't actually cause wounds, but can be a problem if it gets into them?
I still wouldn't want to go to a horrible dirty house though.