...to be really upset DD 12 has no good friends?

[Anonymum40]

DD is in yr 8. She went to a small primary and is now at a very large secondary. She is still good friends with a handful of her primary school friends but they seem to get together regularly now and don't invite her. She sees them individually but 2 of her best friends are getting together with a bunch of others for Halloween and a sleepover and she is not invited.

In the meantime she had a vague plan to meet up with a new friend (she has a couple of new friends she has made since at secondary but they don't seem great mates), to go trick or treating but that has just collapsed, so we are back to mourning about not being invited to the party. I am good friends with both parents of the party girls (in fact we're all supposed to be going on holiday next summer!) but don't feel I can get involved.

This is really upsetting me. I had a miserable time at secondary school and seeing it happen to DD is really chiming with me and it makes me so depressed. It's even making me question my own friendships and has sent me into a spiral of self esteem issues, which I'm pretty sure are clouding my judgement here. So AIBtotallyU??? WWYD??

Gosh that sound odd. Are you definitely sure your daughter hasn't been invited? Seems really callous of them to keep talking about it if so. I'd recommend definitely asking. It could all be a misunderstanding.

I think year 8 can be quite hard as the friendships made in primary school have often died out but not been replaced by new ones. Ds1 had a horrible time but what really made a difference was bonding with the boys in his rugby team. Ds2 is currently in year 8 and even though he's one of those popular well liked kids, I can see he's at a bit of an in between stage. He's not as close to his primary friends but his new group of friends aren't rock solid friends yet. I think the difference between him and his brother is he's quite resilient and confident, so if he's not invited along, he lets it wash over him.
I have to confess that my ds was good friends with my friend's ds at primary school and things got very awkward as my ds kind of grew apart from him, but he hadn't made new friends. Luckily my friend told me straight out she understood they were becoming different kinds of people and didn't take it personally. We still socialise together as families and the boys get along really well when we are all together. They accept they are not close friends any more but that doesn't mean they can't be friends at all. I think you need to tell your DD this.

IME secondary school friends can be quite fluid. Both DDs are now at secondary and both seem to have quite wide circles of friends, with the new 'best' friend changing every few months.

Both DDs went up to the grammar with a group of close friends they'd had since reception. I fully expected them to pretty stick with their primary friends, but they really haven't. They're still friendly with them of course, but newer friendships seem to be at the fore now.

Bear in mind that emotionally they're all going through big changes and exploring who they are and what they like about other people.

Probably best not to keep questioning your DD about her friends, it will make her worry that something is very wrong, and she'll pick up on your anxiety/concern.

Make it easy for her to invite a friend over at anytime (though I'm sure you do this anyway). But when a friend comes over don't hover anxiously trying to 'help' them be friends. Just lay on the pizza and snacks and leave them to it.

Personally I wouldn't approach the other Mums and query why your DD wasn't invited. I doubt anything genuinely productive will come if it. Your DD would hate to find out she'd only been included because you had gone cap in hand to the other Mums.

You could also encourage her to join some after school clubs or activities as there might be new friends there that she will click more easily with.

Thank you all for your advice today. DD is coming to terms with things and we're trying to make light of it (I'm still smarting, but this has really helped). Just DD, DS and me trick or treating this year then...

It gets better op. DD was in identical boat 6 years ago. I was miserable for her, quite beside myself sometimes. She started university last month and is living it large and all the nasty shitbags who shunned her for not being "cool" enough are floundering now. Hth

Thanks laffy, just wish we could leapfrog the next few years...

My DD had a crappy time at the end of year 7/start of year 8 but now has some really solid friends at school, mostly made on school holidays (PGL/French Exchange). If there's a school holiday coming up, this might be worth a go. I think it mixes the children up a bit and gives them a chance to get to know new people.

I think it was awful that they were all talking about it in front of you and your dd! Surely the mother should have had a bit of common sense? think you definitely should not be booking a holiday with these people.

Anonymum40 I am very sorry your dd is having a hard time and I am sorry you are affected by this.

Just to clarify.... are you saying that you are long term friends with two mums and their kids are long term friends with your dd and other children, and they are doing something tomorrow for Halloween and your dd has not been invited? Also that this has been discussed in front of you and your dd and you are planning on possibly going on holiday with them all?

If this is the situation here is what I would do in your shoes....

Talk to dd first thing tomorrow and see what she wants you to do, just give her the option, mention it to one or both mums (separately - perhaps by phone) or not?

Then do what she wants you to do.

I must admit I agree with BertrandRussell when they say I really don't understand why you didn't ask the party mother.

I would be asking unless my dd said she really did not want me to. By not asking you are kind of suggesting this is OK.

It is certainly OK to have some activities that all children are not invited to, and of course sometimes places are limited by car spaces, or a very expensive venue etc. This does not sound like the case here.

Maybe they do genuinely think she is not free to join them!

I would ideally want to talk about this now even if it is not resolved before the actual event, e.g. in case it happens again (e.g. say at Christmas). My concern would be in not challenging this unfortunate situation you may end up bringing it up later and feeling a bit petty (which you would not be). So better to ask now (in a nice way, as someone has said before maybe 'have I missed something, have the kids got some problem I am not aware of?" .... sort of way.

Aside from this I would also encourage dd to make new friends, try out new activities. As I know you are doing.

I would be open with your adult friends away from the children, it seems that the girls are not including dd in things and I am not comfortable with this. I woudl also say I am not comfortable booking a holiday for next year. If things improve you could look at it again. It does not mean your younger children can't play together although I would be a bit uncomfortable about these two families if I have understood the situation right.

BUT make sure your dd is OK with all this because either way challenging or not challenging could have repercussions for her.

I do understand a bit as I was very shy at school and very dyslexic at school. DD is also very dyslexic and I have worked hard to ensure she maintains friendships and makes new friends, she is 10. By this I mean we have invited numerous friends back for play dates, meals and even a few for sleep overs. I have spoken to the school when there was any whiff of bullying or being left out (with dd's agreement to speak to school) and I have tied to encourage dd in things like going to Brownies/Guides etc to make friends.

I have done this because my parents did not encourage me and I was very shy and felt this would help my dd.

You may be doing this already and, of course, your dd is older than mine, and it does get harder to be involved in their lives and friends (rightly so) as they get older.

Lastly in your shoes I would get some counselling to address your own issues about the past so that hey do not affect you in your interactions with your dd or her friends or affect your ability to do things like this for her. It is not about you, you have not been excluded, she has. If there is a reason for this, any reason, then she should know about it. But ask her first, her feelings come first in this. All the best.

Wow, italiangreyhound, what a long response, thank you for your time and consideration!

Yes, you have got the situation right, we've known the 2 girls and their mums for about 5 or 6 years. They've always been mates, but the way the classes have been divided at secondary they don't see my DD in classes anymore and have become closer as a result. They also have friends from these classes that my DD feels a bit intimidated by and thus feels excluded. So these girls are having a party together. As I said, one of the girls (the one she had until recently considered her best friend), told her she'd feel left out if she came along.

All fair enough I suppose. It's the fact that the 3 of them walk to school together and the 2 have been talking about this party for the last 2 weeks, planning outfits etc and DD has been upset but has felt too timid to speak up about it that I hate. And their parents too! Even this evening party-holding mum texted me to ask about our prospective holiday dates (with them) and I just wanted to text back why she wanted to know, when DD isn't invited to her party.

I'm not prepared to ask though as any subsequent party invite would just be embarrassing for everyone and DD would hate it. DD thinks it's time to move on, though she's still happy to walk to school with them on Monday... though I did warn her this means she'll have to hear all about how fabulous the party was. Grrrrrr...

Oh and yeah - I've wondered if I need counselling too!

Re the one she had until recently considered her best friend), told her she'd feel left out if she came along I think that you need to get your dd some assertiveness training to combat that shit!

Does dd feel she can handle it? If not, maybe it is best to not go and that is the reason she has not been invited.

If this is how things wil be I would work on helping her to be empowered either to deal with this stuff or to make new friends. pre teen girls who are friends with each others friends should be able to be civil and enjoy an evening without anyone being totally left out (IMHO) if they can't then things are not great.

Re DD thinks it's time to move on, though she's still happy to walk to school with them on Monday... though I did warn her this means she'll have to hear all about how fabulous the party was. Grrrrrr... If that is what DD wants give her the best every Halloween you can (just been in another thread moaning how I hate Halloween!! ha ha). What would your dd love! A chocolate fountain? Rent or buy one if you can afford it! A night somewhere special? Not too late to organise it. Help her to be ready to nod and smile and be interested in their party but ALSO tell them about the fab evening she had!

Now you have explained why she was not invited i would be less likely to talk to the mums at this stage (in your shoes). I think I would be tempted to get her to be as positive and confident as she can be, let this be led by her.

When holiday talk come up be evasive (as you are being).

Does dd want to go on the holiday?

the best every Halloween??

the best Halloween

I've had tons of counselling, anxiety, eating disorder, fertility issues.... it has been amazingly helpful. It is not as sad or weak option it is empowering.

I wonder if this site is any use?

www.girlsinc-online.org/

PS ---it sounds like you are doing everything right.

I've PM'd you OP.

My dd (15) is the same. She has some friends but is so quiet she often gets overlooked. It breaks my heart too but I don't know what to do. Encourage her to invite friends round (I try) and then hope invites get reciprocated .

How did tonight go. I was thinking of you.

You have my sympathies. My DS is in Year 10. He has a group of mates at school, but when the group meet up outside school, he is not invited.
He has a friend who lives locally and they discussed possibly trick or treating tonight. My son has only been once before and was really looking forward to getting dressed up. The friend was out all day with family and got back too late. Not his fault, but my DS was gutted. Made me feel so sad for him.