His kids - AIBU

[blueteatowel]

I am struggling to understand and agree with my partners attitude to his children. We have been together for a nearly a year and we have talked about marrying and having children next year. However, I cannot relate to his relationship with his kids nor am I sure I can have children with someone whose values differ so far from mine.

The background is that he and his wife split over 2 years ago. He claims that she would not let him see the kids despite him trying - he couldn't really explain to me how he had tried aside from going to her parents house to try and find her address. He did not seek legal advice.

When we met I said that I sympathised with his situation but I could not see myself with someone that had not exhausted every angle to retain a relationship with their kids. He eventually emailed her to ask to visit and thus fortnightly visits of about 5hrs were established.

I told him how pleased I was that he had starting seeing children again and after a couple of months, asked him if he thought about either ringing them during the week or on the weekends that he doesn't see them for a chat and he said 'they don't need that'. I asked him if he had any plans to see them over their half term and he said 'no-one's said anything to me'; he's off over the half term week.

When I ask him how he feels about the level of involvement he has in the lives of his kids he just says that he wasn't the one that took them away. I understand this but try and talk to him from the angle that it wasn't the kids choice to be taken away either.

From the day we met he told me how much he misses his children and even now still gets upset when he thinks about his kids. I know that he found the break up of his marriage difficult, especially as his wife did not and has not given him a reason for why she left. I feel that he cannot separate the children from the situation with his ex and the hurt that he still feels.

My children are my life. I'd walk over hot coals, sell my house/body/car to fund legal fees for access if needs be. I just find his ability to be satisfied with 5hrs every two weeks just bizarre and rather selfish. A couple of my friends say that this is just how men are but the only other man I have been in a relationship with that had kids, called his child daily, had her to stay every other weekend and met her after school for dinner one night a week.

I'm just interested in other people's views as I wonder if I am being unreasonable in my expectations.

He doesn't sound that bothered about them tbh.
There seem to be a lots fathers who on only rock up to see their children when another woman comes on the scene.

Why do you feel the need to have a child with him?
Have you been with him when he interacts with his children?

"From the day we met he told me how much he misses his children"
I think that would come under 'telling my girlfriend what I think she wants to hear'. It's a lie, pure and simple. If he missed them he'd do something about it.

"I know that he found the break up of his marriage difficult, especially as his wife did not and has not given him a reason for why she left."
And presumably he's put as much effort into finding out the reason as he's put into seeing his children. Assuming of course that this is true, and not just another 'telling my girlfriend what I think she wants to hear'.

I'm guessing that all it took was an email to his ex to arrange contact? No fight put up, no making it difficult for him. Because I expect his ex has never put any obstacle in his way, ever. She simply removed herself and her children from a man who was completely uninterested in them. Sorry OP, but that's how I read this situation.

You are not being unreasonable in your expectations of how a father would behave. You may be unreasonable in thinking this man is actually father material. He sounds emotionally lazy; someone took them away so that's that. No effort to be made.

Honestly, I think it would be a mistake to marry this man and have children with him. History will repeat itself.

If he's not putting in the best effort with his kids now, then will he just change and decide to put in the best effort with your kids later on all of a sudden?

He probably has been given a reason for a divorce, he's just not telling you. You can't necessarily take the man's side all the time - the mum has the other half of the story.

I was in a relationship with someone who never saw his daughter. Couldn't be bothered with solicitor's etc. Told me 'she wont let me see her' blahblahblah. Then... I got pregnant, unplanned, and stupidly thought he would be interested. No. What he did was leave while I was pregnant, no warning, and I've never seen him since. He has made no effort like he didn't with his daughter. Duh brain I was.

If he can't be bothered with kids now, then he wont ever be basically. 5 hours every 2 weeks? Yeah, that's making such an impact on the kid's lives that is!

I am afraid you are trying to see something in him that isn't there

It sounds like he only eventually contacted his kids to please YOU. And that's not right.

he may be hurt. but he's also not bothered. See the man for the man he is.

It's actions that count, not words. Words are easy.

It sounds as if he likes playing the victim but has no real interest in putting any more time or effort in to helping raise his children.
Does he support his children financially? If he doesn't, or pays the bare minimum, I would be running a mile. As it is, I don't think you could ever trust that any children you had together wouldn't be treated with such cold distance in the future.

Don't have children with this man. A close family member of mine made this mistake - she married a man with two children, and we all felt sorry for him when he told us how difficult his ex-wife made it for him to see the children, and how hard he'd fought for contact.

Unfortunately, as time went on, it became more and more apparent that it was all talk. I think, in fairness, that his ex-wife did make things a little awkward, but I saw no evidence of any real effort on his part to overcome the difficulties. There was lots of 'it's just too difficult, I'll give up and let them make their own decision when they're older' etc etc. There were also a number of missed maintenance payments, and he made no attempt to build any relationship between his two sets of children - they were kept completely separate with the older children never invited to their younger siblings' parties, or on any family holidays or outings.

My relative is now in the process of divorcing him, and once again there's lots of self-pitying 'poor me, it's so hard not seeing my children' coupled with the barest minimum of contact, lots of last-minute cancellations or missed phonecalls.

If someone really wants to see their children they will pursue every possible avenue. If they don't do that then chances are they just can't be arsed, and would rather put their time and energy into bad-mouthing their ex and extracting sympathy from others.

if he's like this with his and the ex's kids, potentially he'll be like that with his and your kids.
i wouldn't risk finding out.

Ugh. Another woe is me victim type.

I could never respect a guy who didn't see his DC's. He's apathetic and not taking responsibility. No parent has a legal right to stop the other parent from granting access (assuming no abuse has taken place obvs)

If his ex wanted out that's between them. Nothing to do with his DC's.

Hi blueteatowel,
I'm not in a dissimilar situation myself but I am expecting a baby, I've got a few of the same questions in my head but you are in a good position now to have a good think and talk about this before marriage and kids become a reality! You're doing the decision making in the right order- learn from me lol!!
So I'd be asking- is he divorced from his ex yet?
In the divorce were there terms agreed for seeing the kids and maintenance?
Your dp sees his kids more than my dp but (I think) this could be because this is still not fully resolved and the ex is dodging his attempts at the moment. We'll see. I'm also banging the drum about keeping his relationship going with his dd. Kids need their dad!
Have you met the kids? My view is to insist on this before we make any commitment. Hasn't happened yet. She doesn't live close which sort of explains this.
Does he have stuff to work through about how it ended- he said he was hurt about it and he wasn't sure why but there would have been a reason- I'd want to find out if his ideas of being a husband and a father clashed with his ex's- might clash with yours too. What are your expectations about parenting?
What is his experience of marriage/parenting from his childhood- good, stable? Does he have support around him? What do his family say about his ex? (Although family will always be biased lol a sister or female friend could maybe give insight into what might have gone wrong in the relationship)
Take your time and really dig into all this would be my advice - much better than having these conversations when you are further down the road....
All the best OP xxx

Sadly I agree with VimFuego101 - if all it took to get access to his DCs was an e-mail asking for it to his ex, then I don't believe she stopped access at all, more he didn't bother asking for it until it became clear his new girlfriend thought his lack of parenting was questionable.

This isn't someone who cares about his DCs. He'll see them when it suits, but really if you hadn't pushed him, probably wouldn't have seen them again.

My exH spun me the same lines and I fell for them. It was all his ex's fault, she stopped him from seeing his kids etc etc. When we split he only ever dipped in and out of DS's life sporadically and usually when there was a woman to impress. After years of disappointment and broken promises DS chose to go NC when he was 15 and ex didn't even attempt a reconciliation so he hasnt seen or heard from his dad in 4 years.

Ask yourself Is this the kind of man you want to marry? Is this the kind of father you want for your children? No? Didn't think so

He will do the same to children he has with you - he is a waste of space. He only took on contact with his chidlren because you made him. Bit pathetic really/

Dump

I've noticed that a lot of people love playing the stricken parent, but it's a classic case of actions speaking louder than words. What do they SAY - and what do they DO?

Does he financially support his children?

Thanks everyone for your time and your opinions. It's pretty shit, although very helpful for other people to confirm what I think I already knew. Just to answer some of the questions that have been asked.

Vimfuego No, the ex did not seem to put up any fight when he sent the email asking for visitation. He claims that in the past she hasn't responded but on this occasion, it was all agreed in 3 days. However, at the initial split she would not tell him her whereabouts or respond to contact.

Littlelions He lives about a 2.5 - 3hr drive (one way) from the children.

Osolea In terms of his relationship with the children prior to the marriage breakdown, he was SAHP for eldest child for about a year. When he went back to work he said that he did school drop offs and weekends in the park.

MsColouring Yes, I do wonder if much of his attitude relates to his inability to separate the children from the situation. I do understand how much a break up can hurt, I've been there, but I just think that as a parent you do not have the luxury of putting yourself first. I have suggested that he considers counselling but he said that he doesn't need it.

What I did not put in the original post as I could not decide if it was entirely relevant, or focus on ex's illness; was the fact that his ex had periods of severe mental ill health and had been hospitalised twice. It was after the third period of ill health where she went to stay with relatives and refused all contact and served divorce papers. But my view is that if you know that the main caregiver needs extra support, you have even more of a duty to ensure that you have pursued access.

Corlan Yes, he does financially support the children.

Onedirection No, I haven't been with him when he has been with the children, I have never met them. The resumption of contact has been relatively recent and I thought that he needs to re-establish a good relationship with them prior to them meeting me. I told him this from the outset. As to why I feel the need to have a child with him; well, that's possibly another issue clouding my thoughts. My age and the thought that I may not meet someone in time for me to have another child/ren. Whilst this is a real concern for me, it does not trump everything and I think I know deep down that this is not a relationship that I can progress with.

Daffodil Thank you for sharing your experience. No, he is not divorced yet. She started proceedings but they could not agree on the split of assets and they both appeared to just leave it. He is moving forward with it again as they have spoken and agreed on a way forwards with the properties.

My expectations about parenting are that your children are so precious and they need you even more when things get tough. My oldest is 18 and at uni, I speak to her everyday and tell her I love her. Her father, is one of the most emotionless people that I know. Him and his daughter have a great relationship and we split when she was 2 - he's just always made the effort.

His relationship with his family is poor (another red flag for me). His father does not live in the UK so less contact is understandable. He does not speak to his mother or siblings because he feels that they did not provide him with enough support when his wife left. They had contact with her and respected her wishes for them not to pass her whereabouts onto him. I can argue the rights and wrongs of this both way as the ex had been extremely ill and may have wanted to focus on her health or, it could have been a manifestation of her illness, I'll never know.

His parents also split up when his was a child and they split the kids between them. He lived with his father and saw his mum and siblings every year. The family dynamic appears odd to me as my mum would have gone postal on my brother or I if we didn't fight to see or children. His parents have seen the grandchildren once and, even more strange, didn't even attend his wedding saying that they were 'busy'. His family situation seems odd and I wonder if his hands off approach is also related to how he was raised in a seemingly very detached way.

The more I write I think the more I am answering my own question. It is very sobering to see it in black and white.

Maybe his mother and siblings know something you don't.

Maybe he wasn't supportive of her when she was ill. Maybe they are disgusted in the way he has treated his children.

Maybe he behaved badly during the marriage etc.

There are so so many things that would have me walking away

I'd trust your gut on this one.

Red flag - I would not have DC with this man!

At the end of the day he's trying to make excuses for being a bad father. Don't waste any more time with him!

I'd love to hear his ex wife's take on this....

Big flashing warning signs!! I would not be having children with this man. My STBXH is a s*e but he is a committed father- phones and sees his children regularly and obviously loves them. Your partner, as father has in the eyes of the law a right to see his children regularly and be involved in their upbringing. He's just not been exercising that right until your involvement. Which is suspicious.

Huge Red Flags all over the latest update op.
He has talked about marrying you next year when he is still legally married to someone else. He talks about having children with you but shows no interest in the children he already fathered by someone else. He talks about marrying you even though you have never met his children.
RUN! SAVE YOURSELF BLUE! Get out before it's too late

The thing about the ex wife not wanting him to know where she was is a big red flag for me too. Maybe a symptom of her mental illness but also may be that he knows far more than he's admitting to about why she left him. Maybe the kids even know stuff and he doesn't want them around a new girlfriend but that really is guessing now. Either way, the lack of contact would mean this was not someone I could have any respect for or trust in.

He does not speak to his mother or siblings because he feels that they did not provide him with enough support when his wife left. They had contact with her and respected her wishes for them not to pass her whereabouts onto him.

was the fact that his ex had periods of severe mental ill health and had been hospitalised twice. It was after the third period of ill health where she went to stay with relatives and refused all contact and served divorce papers.

at the initial split she would not tell him her whereabouts or respond to contact.

his wife did not and has not given him a reason for why she left

These statements from you scream to me that he abused her in some way. He destroyed her mental health after they had children. Eventually she ran. His own family knew what he was like and helped to protect her.

He has made shockingly little effort to have contact with his children.

He doesn't know why she left, she won't tell him. Arse. A normal person knows why they split up even if the other person doesn't tell them why. He just doesn't like to admit the reason to you or to himself maybe

Does he have any other red flags for being a twat in waiting?

I have to say it really pisses me off when some are so quick to slate all men and group them all together.

Not aimed at you OP.

Both of my ex's were always and still are crap when it comes to they're own children,one has no contact and hasn't for 13 years and the other one our oldest 2 sons don't want anything to do with him,they're 19 and 17 so it's completely they're choice.Myself and my DH have tried to help them have a relationship with they're Dad but he's let them down so much they're not interested.

As far as they're all concerned DH is they're Dad and he's adopting all the children so that they're all legally down as his children as much as they are mine he hates that they were let down by them.

For me him not doing all he can to see and be in contact with his LO's would ring real alarm bells for me,especially being as you've got children of your own and think he may want to have children with you in the future.

You encouraging him to see his children was a really nice thing to do,but it would leave me wondering if you hadn't encouraged him to would he have ever got around to bothering?