Facebook bringing out the racist Islamaphobes

[Collaborate]

Sorry - it's another Facebook one. I can't decide what to do.

Someone my wife and I were friends with around 15 years ago recently connected on Facebook.

Today he's shared an EDL posting about the banning of burqas.

Before I disconnect from him, WIBU to post a comment? My draft comment so far is:

I'm trying to detect irony, without success. On the basis that it's the EDL advocating this, I reckon we should all be required to wear one. What is their stance on balaclavas? Beards? Sunglasses? Hats? To be honest, I don't want to know. Unacceptable racist propaganda.

I found this article interesting, the variety of reasons for wearing it.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11120588/Muslim-women-reveal-why-they-wear-the-veil-burqa-school-debate.html

Useful link here which explains the names of the different types of garb

www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241

Oh the irony of those who advocate banning an article of clothing on the basis that it is a symbol of oppression. And what does criminalising those women who want to wear it constitute if not oppression?

I don't think the burqa is a good idea. Personally I don't like it. But I wouldn't make it a crime for someone else to wear it.

Anyway - my original question was whether I should just unfriend or I should comment first. I chose to comment, and feel better for it.

Hooray me.

The analogy with nuns is extremely bad.

Christian girls in parts of the world are forced to wear a veil to school, by the Muslim majority, it is no way comparable to a small number of adult women choosing to become nuns.

Most communities in Britain where burqa-wearing is common are insular, and women might not have any free choice about wearing them.

SO you would also ban people wearing disguises then? What if I wore a wig and a false beard? I should be arrested on that logic
*imagines self in wig and beard
**agrees would deserve arrest

Challenge. But with respect and without aggression. But don't be silent.

"If you are neutral in situations if injustice you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

I've worn one, I was forced to.

It made me invisible, silent, vulnerable and apart.

Would you make your wife or sister wear one?

Or are you too busy trying to sound like you've swallowed a thesaurus than thinking about what hiding yourself really feels like as a woman?

Because I'm not convinced you're in a position to contribute sensibly to the implications of women being made to cover us as so as their bodies change.

Anyone who thinks it's 'like being a nun' is silly.

Were you forced to wear hijab, niqab or burqa Olivepip59?

I'd question first. Do they support / understand the EDL? They have the right to believe in banning the burka, it's not a sign of racism without other intent. I challenged a friends son on a Britain First post that was borderline. He was horrified, didn't know what they stood for.

I would like to ban it. Yes for some women I guess this is another form of oppression but then nudists are oppressed by decency laws. Societal rules prevent some people from doing what they want and while it would be desirable for all to have complete free will in reality society doesn't and cannot work that way.

Banning the 2 versions of face covering to me has the weight towards pros not cons. Integration will be improved, women who ARE forced will be free of the things. Able to interact more. It may increase the chance of a woman who is being abused making connections and getting help. It helps equality. It's just downright wrong that a man can saunter around in a tracksuit and tee while the woman is covered head to toe. And younger girls have a chance to make friends not be forced by parents to be separated and controlled so young.

Niquab.

Posted before seeing Olive post. How did you get free of it?

Moved.

I think there's a sensible and sensitive debate to be had but I think it would be useful for those who vociferously defend it and accuse those who are opposed to it as racists to have experience of how it feels to be hidden and whether they would have their female relatives wear it?

Agree. Crying racism doesn't help. We need to be free to debate without that.

I am married into Islam. My children will make choices when they are older. I am in no way racist yet support a ban.

Totally agree Olive. Glad you are free of it now. I also wish that people wouldn't assume all muslims are in favour of niqab. A sizeable proportion are not.

I feel awful for you Olivia

Some people do choose to wear them however and in that case I have no problems and don't feel uncomfortable in the slightest

We are both dashing for a vase, thank you scarf!

That cartoon is a bit useless really; it kinda undermines its own argument.

The whole point of the nun's habit is to signify that said woman is not a part of normal civic society, and has chosen to ostracise herself from the demands and expectations of the socio-political realm -- marriage, child-bearing, family etc. Her clothing indicates that she is "other".

This ability to withdraw from the socio-political realm is a tradition that goes back to the very early days of Christianity whereby Roman women who professed the faith could actually "opt out" of the traditional expectations that provided the structure for both the Roman state and the notion of citizenship; they could escape the paterfamilias system, for example, and refuse to marry and bear children.

So using a nun's habit to argue that similar clothing is not "othering" is kinda bizarre, because the whole point of a nun's habit is to "other".

Very good point Werks.

I am deeply uncomfortable with the position of women in some Muslim societies and in some Muslim families in the UK. In Scandinavia ( one of the most liberal areas in the world) this is more openly discussed without accusations of racism. My own observations/experiences has been of women who did not previously wear head or face coverings choosing now to do so. Likewise I see previously "westernised" looking men, now growing beards. Why is this? I fear that it's sign of an increasing polarisation in our society, and that concerns me.