To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

AmandaJanePisces
MrsUltra the jealousy evident from some on here of your chosen course of action i.e. Supply in which you clearly do teach & mark, yet are true to your beliefs, is very interesting.

So saying how it is is now jealousy! Well there is no wonder that the government can drive a truck through teachers rights.

Amanda - you never got back to us following my last question.

Additionally, would you be happy if your children were taught solely by a series of supply teachers?

I agree with noble and Evil, if supply were the same as being a FT class teacher and being invested in the children's long-term progress, I'd still be shattered, stressed and not able to do it.
The children usually learn something in the sessions I teach them, they are engaged and on task for the most part. They get verbal feedback, and we use a range of different strategies to ensure that the work is marked, but no where near the level of in-depth assessment that I'd be doing if they were mine.
I aim to do the day, make life easier for everyone if I can, do whatever is possible to make sure any children with additional needs don't have a dreadful time because their real teacher wasn't there and I leave the classroom tidy and a note to say how the day went and anything I think needs flagging. yes, the children enjoy it and I get a lot of repeat business and happy children cheering when I walk in the room as their known supply.
But real class teaching? No. It's not comparable at all.
If you haven't done both for a few years, I don't see how you can pronounce with such absolute certainty how things are.

My DD had a phone call from a parent because his son complained because he had to do acting. She teaches Drama and the 16 year old chose the subject.

I was verbally offered AHT roles on three occasions, which were being locally & nationally advertised (please let that be a lesson to those who risk falling out of favour by chasing the rainbow of advertised jobs, they are very often earmarked).

I was flattered & tempted by the first (T&L), but realised that I was not prepared to inflict DeBono nonsense, VAK etc onto staff who were actually dealing with drug abuse, pregnant 12-year olds etc.

The second would have involved me line-managing subjects I have no knowledge of eg MFL, and I have too much respect for specialists trained in these areas to sit in judgement on them, as per the current, contemptuous trend.

The third was Specialist Status (Maths) which I seriously considered, but given the issues this subject faces in terms of staff recruitment, retention & student outcomes (eg entirely unfairly compared which English in which much of the coursework is fabricated), I chose to remain HoD.

By this point, particularly having served as a Staff Governor, I had no desire to join the spineless crew who were ruining what little goodwill was left in my school.

Teachers want to quit - because the job is no longer what it was in 1981..
Good luck with that. The world has moved on.

I think it would be a real shame if this thread descended into teachers sneering at and attacking other teachers.

I think it would be a real shame if this thread descended into teachers sneering at and attacking other teachers.

Seconded.

I complain to my DH about a lot of things - missing break, the latest bullshit from SLT, the yr9 who was a pain today; does this make me spineless or a spouse talking about their day?

Ultra - you have said numerous times on this thread and others about the joys of supply teaching but the thread is about full time teachers leaving the profession in droves

Mrs Ultra - The only actual 'solution' I have seen offered on here is to 'go back to 1981'.
I don't think anyone offered this as a solution, and clearly it would be misguided as the world has massively moved on since then and education must reflect this.
However, most of us agree that many reforms made since then haven't been in the wider interests of pupils and teachers. It could have gone a different way, and still could. We need to remain united as a profession, though. We must all have the same commitment to children's learning?

MrsUltra the jealousy evident from some on here of your chosen course of action i.e. Supply in which you clearly do teach & mark, yet are true to your beliefs, is very interesting.

I assume this is not aimed at me. I love my job. I teach in a specialist, 'hard to recruit to' niche which I am lucky enough to be rather good at. As such I have been able to dictate negotiate my terms and conditions, I am well paid for the hours I want to work and my work-life balance is great. However, I can see that my colleagues are in dire straits and the last bloody thing I would do is blame them for it.

Iguana in answer to your question about other countries' financial investment vs GDP etc :

nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

I would hope that your data analysis skills are sufficiently developed to enable you to see how money is being wasted by the current system in England compared to its economic competitors.

Pipbin and ilovesooty well said. A pp stated that she had sent a copy of this thread to Nicky Morgan. Fighting in the ranks won't help much IMO.

Amanda no I didn't ask about countries' financial investment.

You said However, other systems create better outcomes for students & other stakeholders, thus optimising the use of taxpayers' money. and I am interested to know to which systems you refer, and in which countries.

There are not really any 'joys' of supply teaching. It is one way of working with children without the workload. It has a lot of different stresses and you miss the everyday relationship with the same children.
My way was quite different from MrsUltra's and despite being told that I was wrong I preferred my way. I did what I would have liked a supply teacher to do had I been the class teacher. It led to quite a few time jobs, which I preferred.
I only went to schools with a good relationship with the staff where I was Mehitabel, if I was 'the supply' I never went back.
Supply certainly gives you a good overall view of schools and different Heads. A good Head tries to take the pressure off the staff- (as much as they can)

Amanda - bizarrely the link you selected does not actually feature the UK as a point of comparison. (Not that it in any way answers your assertion, so it's neither here nor there).

I'm with ILS on this. Permanent/temporary teachers/supply/TAs should all support each other or the whole thing will fall apart.

Can we please put SLT on that list millefeuille?

In all the schools I've taught in, I always saw supply teaching as a challenge. Pupils can put on their worst behaviour for a cover teacher. A good supply is very valuable.
But one school began to rely heavily on supply cover due to chronic staff shortages, and that was when the place started to implode. Not enough long-term commitment to 'turn it round'. The answer for schools, children and teachers is to make full-time teaching an attractive proposition with a work-life balance. That's what we should fight for. A 'supply' dispute is a distraction.

Of course. An oversight.

And I have to say, we are lucky to have a very supportive SLT.

As a parent I'm not keen on supply teachers being used too often. The regulars at ds2's school seem a law unto themselves. One was let go for shouting at another school team in some competition & another told ds2 that he sounded illiterate & his voice was so squeaky it was making her head hurt (I did check out this somewhat outrageous statement & it seems to be true that it was said). I'm also good friends with a regular supply teacher & know from her the challenges that supply teachers face in terms of classroom management & teaching anything useful. Personally I think it would be a disaster if supply cover became the norm (albeit I can understand why teachers feel the need to switch to supply).

Of course supply teachers are the norm. Teachers all get PPA time and supply teachers are a better option than unqualified staff. Teachers also need to go on courses and they get ill.

Well yes, but there's a balance isn't there. If every other lesson is a supply teacher I doubt much progress will be made. In the same way I think that constant staff turnover isn't good for a school.

Supply teachers can't become the norm because behind every supply teacher is a class teacher setting the work and picking up the threads once they've left.

We had a supply teacher in for a term and they refused to do any marking or reporting (as I've seen some supply teachers advise on here). What actually happened was the marking and reporting was divvied up among the rest of the department increasing their workload. But I guess the supply teacher was happy.