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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

1000 replies

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/10/2015 16:06

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

OP posts:
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rambunctious · 24/10/2015 16:31

I work in prison education and the pressures are the same there. The amount of paperwork that we have to complete is ridiculous, and there is always the perception that however hard we work, it just won't be good enough - the 'learning walk' will flag some error to correct, the wall displays will have something missing, I didn't ask quite enough higher order questions, the learner's target wasn't specific enough etc.
And, of course, i have very different learners! I don't have the number of learners that a school teacher has, nor do I have irate parents to deal with. But there are many security and safety issues that make the environment a particularly specialist one in which to work.
Like so many other teachers on this thread i love teaching, and when I am in front of the class i forget all the rubbish and just enjoy the teaching and learning experience. But then the learners leave and all the paperwork stares me in the face...

Narp · 24/10/2015 16:32

brokenhearted

What you say is valid, but I think there's something particular about a job where your responsibility is to care for the wellbeing of vulnerable people, whilst being unsupported and over-worked yourself. And I think that stress filters down to them.

There is something very 'exposed' about being a teacher. You are 'performing' all the time.

So I don't agree that 'no career is different'

(I'm a TA)

Narp · 24/10/2015 16:33

I have also worked in the NHS, and I think school management is more prone to being 'quirky' (for want of a better word)

ArmchairTraveller · 24/10/2015 16:40

You are right broken, there are a huge number of stressful jobs that don't allow a reasonable work/life balance, that have enormous demands and vulnerable clients. Teaching is by no means the only one.
But somehow, the line 'We dont all cut and run' has a ring of the martyr about it. Or the spectator, handing out white feathers to those judged guilty of cowardice.

That's why teaching is a short-term, intense sort of job. Something to do for a few years before burnout. Or part-time, so that you can balance the demands.
Not a profession, and not a long-term career.

jellyfrizz · 24/10/2015 16:42

Brokenhearted, do you really think teachers are just saying all this because they are lazy, or don't understand that work is often difficult? I think most teachers genuinely want to make a difference for children and are seriously struggling to be able to do that.

I have worked in other areas before teaching and nowhere was even close to as stressful (& I earned a lot more money then too).

Mistigri · 24/10/2015 16:42

brokenhearted I have worked for 30 years in the private sector (35 if you include temping roles as a student). I have never experienced the sort of working conditions described here, and those experienced I'm RL by my British family and friends who work in teaching.

It's just utter bollocks to suggest that it's the same in all jobs. If that were true, all professions would be suffering similar levels of demotivation, high staff turnover and difficulties recruiting. But that is simply not the case in most graduate-level, professional settings outside the public sector.

Mistigri · 24/10/2015 16:42

"in RL" thanks autocorrect :-/

ilovesooty · 24/10/2015 16:43

Of course the government want every school to be an academy. Academies don't recognise unions and don't have to follow teachers' terms and conditions. The growth of academies makes them even more powerless than they already are.

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2015 16:48

If the grass really isn't greener, then why isn't teaching full of returning teachers? Why are there more ex-teachers than teachers?

The ex-teachers I know say that they would never go back.

LaurieMarlow · 24/10/2015 16:51

I work in a pretty stressful consultancy style job in the private sector. And yes, the hours are horrendous long, the clients demanding, the expectations sky high.

However, the difference that I see between my work and teaching is that I am trusted to get on with it without excessive micro management. I have the freedom to do things my way. The parameters of success don't change every 2 minutes. And when things go well I am rewarded (both in terms of gratitude and money).

These factors make all the difference in the world. I honestly couldn't deal with a teaching career - I don't know how you all do it. To be at the mercy of our interfering, ignorant, couldn't give a toss about the actual people government would drive me wild.

LuluJakey1 · 24/10/2015 16:58

Brokenhearted- then add 25-32 different teenagers coming through your door every 50 minutes - 9 groups of them each 3x a week = 180 teenagers of differing abilities who you have to make 2 sublevels of progress with each of them as well as manage their behaviour, ensure they are engaged, on task, producing high quality, well presented work that you mark in detail ever 5 lessons. That is as well as planning 27 lessons, setting and marking assessments, attending meetings after school, running revision and catch up classes after school and at lunchtime, doing two pre-school, break and afterschool duties a week, setting homework once a week for every child and marking it, marking exams, taking detentions, contacting oarents, being told to fuck off, having SLT sitting observing you teach these classes, attending CPD in your own time and being appraised, supervising NQTs and University students- and running CPD for them, giving assessment gardes for every student every 6 weeks, having your grades checked, having to produce evidence to show they are sound, then having to plan extra interventions to do with children who have not made enough progress, being given a list of the groups in evety one of those 9 classes- shoing the high ability students, the middle ability, the low, boys, girls, groups of SEN children, children with statements, pupil premium , non-pupil premium, looked after children, children who have EAL and having to justify the progress of every group, looking after a tutor group, monitoring attendance and punctuality, covering lessons, running revision classs for 3 days at half term for which you are not paid. It is endless.

Pipbin · 24/10/2015 16:58

I agree Broken that there are many stressful jobs out there but I think one of the big differences in teaching is the constantly being judged by damn near everyone. There are your fellow teachers who are SMT, then there are OFSTED (who have often never done the job), then the school governors (who have often never done the job), then there are the HMI inspectors (who have often never done the job or left a long time ago), not forgetting the parents (who have generally never done the job) and or course the ministers for education (who have never done the job).

I bought a house once and I used a solicitors, therefore I think I should have the right to judge you and demand you change how you do your job.
And look at all the threads on here every day bashing teachers - not so many about the professions are there?

tobysmum77 · 24/10/2015 16:58

The grass definitely is greener in my experience.....

roughtyping · 24/10/2015 17:04

pebble but the way you are posting sounds like you think Scottish teachers SHOULD be working all the hours English teachers are. Clearly that's an awful idea.

Yes you're right, the implementation of CfE has been pretty terrible IMO. What you don't see is how hard individual teachers need to work to implement it all, creating new topics, using a variety of resources and creating their own, with no one telling us what's correct.

brokenhearted55a · 24/10/2015 17:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArmchairTraveller · 24/10/2015 17:11

'None of the teachers I know from uni who did their teaching degrees in 2001 have quit. '

That's interesting; are they PT? Working in independent schools or abroad? Had long baby breaks?
Are they male?

Keeptrudging · 24/10/2015 17:13

Laurie, absolutely spot on. Why are we not trusted that we want to do our absolute best for our pupils, and will use whatever methods we can to engage and motivate our pupils?

On a side note, for a profession which is supposed to hand out shiny stickers, write nice comments and praise pupils at (almost) all times, why is there so little praise given to teachers from SMT? A little 'thanks/good job' would go a long way some days (or a sparkly sticker).

jellyfrizz · 24/10/2015 17:17

brokenhearted you seem to know an awful lot of teachers, I'm amazed that you aren't more understanding of their work challenges.

pebbletime · 24/10/2015 17:19

rough

NO. I never said that English teachers workload is something that other UK teachers should be working. Just that I think that you can 'get away with' shorter hours outwith class time in Scotland in some areas.

You are right, I don't see how hard individual teachers in my area are working to implement it. I know a few are (2 in my school, one has left and one wants to). I know some are in other areas too. I know many who have left, some for England. What I am saying is that it is (currently) less regulated in Scotland, which the SNP are going to address, it seems.

I sincerely hope the SNP don't move to the English system in many respects. But I'd like better assessment and less politics.

pipbin I think that other professions are also disrespected daily. It is usually open season on lawyers and estate agents, for example. There is a thread where bus drivers have come in for a huge hammering because one wouldn't open the bus doors when a passenger wanted, for example.

But certainly we all care about our children and a 'good / bad' teacher can have a disproportionate effect on your child's confidence and attainment. We should also care about our teachers too and value their part in the process of raising the next generations.

tobysmum that is cryptic - how do you mean?

BoboChic · 24/10/2015 17:23

Teachers aren't trusted to do their absolute (personal) best by their pupils because the powers that be don't want teachers to be delivering a personal vision of learning/progress. School is ever more an institutionalised and standardised experience - DC are supposed to be eating Happy Meals not home-made roast dinners.

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/10/2015 17:26

brokenhearted55a
"None of the teachers I know from uni who did their teaching degrees in 2001 have quit."

How many teachers do you know?

ArmchairTraveller

"Are they male?"

Do you really thin that gender makes a difference?

tobysmum77 · 24/10/2015 17:26

It wasn't meant to be cryptic, it was in response to another post about how if the grass wasn't greener outside teaching then loads of people would be trying to get back in.

pebbletime · 24/10/2015 17:40

ah, sorry, thought it might be an England / Scotland teaching remark.

BoboChic that is a good analogy.

In Scotland, in 1 year our of 6, my dc have had the most outstanding Roast dinner. - like the Christmas Dinner of your dreams. In the other 5, they've had 2 ovenready frozen nugget meal, and 3 bread and gruel years.
6 years of Happy Meals wouldn't be better maybe, but it would be different.

I appreciate I am only extrapolating from my experience here, which may be of limited interest to anyone else!

I know a chap who recently re-trained as a teacher. He would have been outstanding - a Roast Dinner guy if ever there was one. He never went into the profession as he could see that local provision was SO variable and poor that he didn't even want to get involved.

Pipbin · 24/10/2015 17:41

Trust me Pebble I worked in retail - I know what it is to be called a cunt on a daily basis. My point was the shear number of people who are able to tell us how to do our job, without ever having done it themselves, and their opinion actually carries more weight than the teacher's opinion.

BoboChic · 24/10/2015 17:48

I've got an ongoing frozen nugget issue and am fighting for a Happy Meal. Some teachers are never, ever going to be Christmas Dinner material but it's tragic when those that want to and are able to are actively prevented from doing
so.

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