To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

Are protest marches a possibility or are you all just too busy and knackered to even contemplate joining one? I'm sure quite a few clued-up parents would join you.

If ofsted simply no longer existed, would teaching become easier and more enjoyable again, do you think?

By the way, I was put off going into teaching (my dream job since I was small) years ago by a number of long-serving teachers who had seen the profession change for the worse and suggested that despite my enthusiasm I would regret it.

From time to time I am on the verge of giving it a go, and then I read one of these threads and know deep down that I probably did the right thing in not giving it a go all those years ago.

That said, I think the teachers at my kids' school are wonderful. Brilliant people. I don't know how the constant government interference doesn't make them just give up. At the last parents' evening, I was given a big pamphlet of targets that my year 5 son is expected to meet. I looked at it incredulously and asked "you poor lot - you have to actually assess all these criteria for every kid in the class?" The teacher looked at me wryly and said yes. She stayed very professional and didn't slag off the government, but as I was doing it for her as I fell off my chair laughing, there wasn't much need for her to!

As for getting rid of levels, I have been through the whole levels system with my older son and while it wasn't perfect at least it was some kind of assessment system. You knew where your child was at, ability wise. Now we're stuck with something like "below expectations", "meeting expectations" and "above expectations." It means nothing to parents. It's wasting teachers' time to make them do this if it's not informative. The teachers know this too.

Honestly I feel so sorry for you all. It's obvious that the teachers at our school love the kids and the actual teaching, it's just the beaurocracy that's ballsing up education and stopping people like me going into the profession.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and just make Ofsted and the government cronies disappear off the face of the earth.

We've been on strike and we've been on marches. Bog all has happened.

Apart from, of course, parents who want to take their kids out in term time now say 'teachers can take a day off to strike so why can't we?'

I'd like to quote feelingdizzys post upthread:

"I have taught in Ireland, England and Scotland.

There is considerably less paperwork in Ireland, Scotland is catching up and the wooliness of Curriculum for Excellence makes this a particularly difficult task. In England the paperwork is obscene, and does nothing to support the children.

I teach a large class of 30, 5-6 year olds in Scotland, it's a lot of children to teach to read and write that's before all the other stuff.

I love teaching, but as a single parent am constantly pulled. Mostly I survive because I am well thought of in the school and am mostly left alone, but this could change at any moment.

Teaching feels very precarious at the moment, you are told to support the children and be positive in your feedback , two stars and a wish crap,(which the children can't read)but as a teacher you are always not quite right, could always do much better , but no one will tell you what is the right thing."

This is partly what I was trying to say.

I understand that teaching is overregulated in England, by an interfering Govt who don't understand the profession (and probably don't want to) but just want to keep adding pressure to produce 'good results'.

In Scotland, in my experience, it is slightly different. The CfE is political too, and badly written and woolly. My dc, with SEN are told their progress will be 'self / peer assessed' and if we ever get any marks on homework it is '2 stars and a wish' stuff (not that we GOT h/w for 3 years...).
It is UNDER regulated, which is why Nicola Sturgeon is about to make big changes.

NEITHER SYSTEM is working very well, but I imagine there are less specific targeted demands on Scottish teachers - in general - atm. This may change.

As I said I think my area is particularly poor but in Scotland LA's themselves are less accountable and some LA's thus have schools where poor standards continue unchecked, including the opportunity for staff to work shorter hours than is clearly common in England.

ps I never claimed I knew the start and end times of each Scottish school

The problem with strikes is that teachers' concerns are never fully explored by the media so it ends up with the government vuew being explored and lots of moralising from them about how disgraceful it is that we have put parents and children in this position.

Also, there is, as someone else mentioned, an ever-increasing burden on schools. My DH is a Deputy Head and was recently told by social services that he had to identify staff to act as 'family partners' for 'troubled families' ie the most challenging, vulnerable families. THe words used were 'So that if a child is in dirty uniform someone will go round to the house and if the washer is broken they will take the mum to the shop to buy one or to the laundrette to do the washing or arrange for someone to come and fix it- so the problem is sorted for the child'. He said he would not be identifying staff to do that as the school does not have staff sitting around doing nothing and they did not choose to work in a school to end up doing that.

Then he went to a local authority meeting and it turned out social services had done the rounds of schools and said the same thing. They had had the same response.

Family partners were the government's big initiative to sort out the families who put most pressure on resources- addiction problems, prison, domestic violence, long-term unemployment, safeguarding , housing issues would all be flagging them up. The problem is they won't pay for enough of them and have doubled the numbers of families they work with so now local authorities are trying to get schools to have their staff do it. The woman had said school staff should help parents look for jobs.

That is almost unbelievable, lulujakey .

Partnership working is what it's all about now. The teachers don't have enough time to plan and teach for fuck's sake.

That reminds me of the most recent series, Educating Cardiff. A girl whose mum wasn't around had a member of pastoral staff asking her if she had a winter coat, then buying her one, washing her clothes and so on. But that was out of compassion, not because she had been told to do it by SS.

Teachers should not take on the role of surrogate mother/grandmother for families that aren't coping. That's another role entirely.

teachers are being dumped with ss work?! Unions need to become more militant and at the same time get clever with ads on tv . Parents need to be educated as to how the edu system needs to be improved. As I said a publicity campaign by the union.

Ahh Lulu, I worked in a community primary school for years in a very deprived area and we did a lot of that; home visits, interpreting the system for first and second generation immigrants who were often confused and struggling with poverty and inadequate housing and cultural confusion.
We ran welfare support and 'team around the child' before it was a thing.

But that was 20 years ago, and we had the time and enthusiasm to do that, because the crushing paperwork and micromanagement had yet to arrive in full. So the immediate and long term needs of the child and the family were prioritised over the bureaucracy.

It is isn't it Bobo . He said she got a really hard time at the local authority meeting but just kept saying there were not enough family partners so schools would have to identify staff to do it. It won't happen.

What gets me is it was a crap idea to start with and it is yet another government initiative, launched in a blaze of publicity that will sink beacuse they are not funding it effectively. The blame will be passed to local authorities, schools etc.

dh's primary schools get children into Reception who can not sit at a table to eat, have never used cutlery, or seen a vegetable, are not toilet trained and have very poor speech and language development because no one talks to them at home. Apparently Family Partners should sort all that out as well.

But they are still expected to make 2 sub levels of progress at least a year.

'As I said a publicity campaign by the union.'

That's another issue, which union? Far too many and all with differing agendas.

They were not necessarily suggesting teachers did it - admin staff, finance, librarian, learning mentor, SSA, caretaker- anyone the school identified.

Teacher unions are toothless now anyway. Academies can just ignore them.

'dh's primary schools get children into Reception who can not sit at a table to eat, have never used cutlery, or seen a vegetable, are not toilet trained and have very poor speech and language development because no one talks to them at home. Apparently Family Partners should sort all that out as well.'

And limited social skills that tend to mean snatch and grab are key methods they use to get what they want. And screaming to show that things are not how they want them to be? Because many can't understand the idea of sharing and waiting.

Would make more sense for a properly trained social worker (paid by SS)to be based in every school, and for SS to provide him/her with a washing machine The concerned staff could just refer the DC to him/her, and SS could then assess/action as required.
Push back on SS!

And the minute teachers talk about striking we just get told that we are whingers who are forcing hard working parents to take a day off work.
The annoying thing is that strikes are only allowed over pay and conditions so it always sounds like teacher are striking for more money, rather than for all this shit to stop.
Teachers strike because they want to be able to give your children the best education they can, and that means having a teacher who hasn't been up to 1am marking only to have to get up again at 6 to be in school for 7.30.

And re the snatching and grabbing - in secondary, A lid calls out (wanting the answer - not help to work out the answer!). I ack this, and say - 'I am speaking to X at the moment, will get to you when I have finished.' And they really don't get this!
And when I am giving instructions, they call out, and I say 'I will take your question when I have finished explaining' and they don't get this.

So that if a child is in dirty uniform someone will go round to the house and if the washer is broken they will take the mum to the shop to buy one or to the laundrette to do the washing or arrange for someone to come and fix it- so the problem is sorted for the child

Dear god ...

Ah. don't come to Bonnie Scotland then as SNP are bringing in the Named Person for every child law. This means every single child will have a Named Person (not just children who have been flagged up to be 'in need'). It can be anyone other than the parent, but in reality it is the Head teacher, usually.

The responsibilities of the NP are vague, but their powers are quite big.
There is a real opposition to it up here.
Good idea - to reduce the no of professionals involved in cases where a child needs help, but badly badly implemented and another thing for teaching staff to do with little guidance or support.

A teacher friend of mine said to me that the ideals behind the CfE were something 'a good teacher would do naturally' but the implementation was a disaster as it hampered good teachers and did nothing to help those struggling.
My understanding of Lulu's post above is similar.
An outstanding teacher, 20 years ago, on their own initiative and out of sheer goodness was running unofficial 'TAC/ welfare support'.
Now the Govt have blundered in, with little understanding, and are in fact making it worse for everyone and impossible for dedicated teachers to do their job. Everyone loses out.

I used to find the propensity of French teachers to strike at the drop of a hat rather irritating. Gove cured me of that. Now I am wholly in favour of unionisation in education. It's a shame that your unions have had their teeth removed.

In my son's school we've had one strike this term already (about secondary school reforms which parents and teachers are all opposed to), supported by about two thirds of the staff. I don't think I've spoken to a single parent who wasn't in favour of strike action!