Teachers exploiting a position AIBU?

[Ackvavit]

Just been to lunch with group of people I've worked with on and off over many years. We all have varying degrees of friendship but generally have always got along well and socialised over the years. I've got in my car and am quite annoyed at the attitude of 2 of the group and disappointed at others for thinking their attitude is funny. We all work in education, all different places. 2 people concerned, one is Headteacher in small school, other is part of management. Head teacher isn't too bad as seems to be doing an ok job, but by her own admission can't quite believe she got the job. The other was working at another school on a part time basis but financially needed more hours due to personal circumstances changing. She sat there today and admitted she "got the job" because her friend was the Head and has manipulated her position into only now teaching a couple of days a week but presenting to the governors the need for a literacy co ordinator. I'm not disagreeing that this is probably a role the school needs but the lunchtime chat was all very " ha ha idiot governors walked right into this plan", it's a cushy number, I've even blagged my own office, the kids we get are from such transient backgrounds that teaching them the alphabet makes us seem amazing". I'm annoyed because I work in the same field and am absolutely passionate about my role, to the point if I had too I would do it for free. All these 2 discussed was salaries, management points and how little teaching they could get away with before they could take their pensions. No mention of teaching being something they felt could help pupils. Just greed and laziness really. I feel sad that they found it funny and were mocking me for explaining initiatives we are doing to enrich our students lives, in our own time. AIBU to feel I am not wrong that many many NQTs are passionate about teaching and these two are milking the system coasting until they take their pensions?. Sorry this is long! I don't think I'll bother with the next get together. Quite embarrassed they think it is ok. They are no better than benefit scroungers, taking money they don't deserve.

Oy, Leavingsosoon , I'm a drama and dance teacher (okay, do some English too but that's not what I love) and it's soooo not a joke to get paid for it

I put on around 15-20 shows a year, of varying sizes. And the big ones are big. And require 90 hour weeks at times. Yes, it's a massive amount of fun but I definitely deserve to get paid for it!

X Post, Evil!

manic - I'm with you! Broke up for half term today but going in tomorrow for a rehearsal.

I was a shite drama teacher, which is why it was a joke I got paid for it. It wasn't a comment on drama teachers generally, don't worry

How is being a head of a school 'taking advantage'?! Presumably the head has to do all the innumerable admin/management/reporting jobs and is publicly held to account by OFSTED every few years. So, even if they have a 'bad attitude', then they are hardly milking the system as if they are sitting there pretending to do something for nothing, are they?

As for doing the job for free, what a daft thing to say. Obviously someone (the state, another person) would have to support you to do this 'free' work as you can't actually live for free.

I think it's fine to not overwork yourself into a heap of exhaustion like most teachers I know, and it's not like it's completely overpaid, so I don't see any huge fraud being perpetrated here at all.

You may not like their attitude, but all this 'I'd do it for free, I just love children' stuff is probably equally irritating to them.

YANBU to be pissed off with them.

However I'm very at you saying you are so passionate about your job you say you would do it for free? Why? Do you not value the work you do? If you go round saying stuff like that, it undermines everyone else. You can be a good teacher/TA and care about the children and their education and still want to get paid a fair salay. Exactly what leavingsoon said in fact.

Haha, ok, leaving , fair enough. Sorry you incurred the wrath of the drama queens!

Ok obviously my post was worded badly. I'll repeat again, I found the behaviour, in a public place, no idea who conjured up " coffee shop", I certainly didn't say that, to be unprofessional and somewhat distasteful. If it had been a group of estate agents, bankers, benefit claimants braying, boasting or bragging about " milking the system" I would've felt the same. As I suspect would many of you.

As for "doing the job for free", if you read my posts I make it clear that if I could afford to live, as in was financially safe, I would happily offer my services. I didn't suggest this as I have no self respect as one poster suggests, I perhaps should clarify that I also meant " if my school were in dire straits and money to pay me was an issue, I would want to try and work round the problem and try to keep doing the job". I appreciate the responses and sense many posters would've laughed along with my lunch companions.

I do agree with many comments but this boiled down to professional people being unprofessional in a public place, for others, who live in the school community/area to hear. I'll think twice before posting about decent behaviour in respect of a decent wage.

You lost me with your little pop about 'benefits scroungers' at the end of your OP.

I work in a school too. I'm a TA and lunchtime supervisor. I'm also a single parent of three who claims benefits.

Your attitude stinks.

But Ack, was anybody actually listening? I am positive that, over the years, I have muttered many a remark about the general shiteness of education, some of it in a pub or Starbucks or similar.

Should we only admit we work for money behind the privacy of closed doors?

Well, OP, you sound so completely perfect that I think you should put your money where your mouth is and report the conversationalists, along with your comments that they are unprofessional, to the relevant board of governors or local authority. Then tell them how much better, how much more professional you are yourself.

FWIW I find your constant derogatory and extremely insulting comments about your long term colleagues unprofessional and I wonder if you haven't progressed in your career as much as them because you've been labelled a troublemaker, un-empathetic or simply as having no sense of humour.

What I'm trying to say is that you haven't actually posted anything that bad, merely heresay of gossip, and I'm not sure I agree with your implicit assumption that you yourself are beyond similar criticism. You sound rather dreary and a typical NQ know-it-all.

And clearly you're not so passionate about teaching that it has impacted upon your everyday attention to detail over SPAG.

I think this is a thinly disguised attempt to claim that older teachers lack the passion and drive of younger ones.

This is how it is coming across to me as well.
Sorry OP but your original post sounds bitter and dare I say it, slightly ageist.

Also, teachers should be able to vent and let off steam when they are away from the school.
They are under scrutiny so much, they shouldn't have to censor what they say when they're relaxing with friends.

Sometimes people discuss serious topics in a lighthearted way. Which doesn't mean to say that they don't value their work (or don't care)

Scremersford - they aren't my long term colleagues, the original post makes that clear. I'm not perfect.
I'm very happy doing the job I do. Excellent feedback. If I'd been a parent of a child in the school these people teach in then I'd be very disappointed, happy to take the money with an attitude of doing the minimum they can. I have clearly presumed decent manners and attitude from people, only to discover they have lots of support.

I'll forget that for what it costs their school to run one year group in salary they could run 3 using newer teachers who care about the pupils first.
Night all, not a pleasant forum when all I'm suggesting is that people earning a decent wage and responsible for educating the future adults of our society behave a little less brash.

I guess mumsnet is the equivalent of the playground and being pleasant isn't cool.

New teachers care about the pupils first?

FWIW I'm a teacher... started training because I wanted to do a degree that promised a job at the end of it and the holidays were very attractive to me.

Turns out, purely by luck, that I love teaching. I quite enjoy the company of my class, once I have got to know them, but don't actually like random children on a day to day basis.

I have been known to bitch horrifically about my job, to my colleagues and to my friends/family. It is a stressful job where I often feel everyone (parents, general public and government) are out to get you and make you feel a) shit at your job and b) responsible for the downfall of society and the emotional impact that has on me means that I need to vent.

I spent the first three years of my career arriving at school at 7am and not leaving till the cleaner kicked me out, then doing more work when I got home until I collapsed in bed, ready to do it all over again the next day. I was regularly in at weekends and holidays.

I am now pregnant and physically cannot work like I used to... and I don't want to. I am also technically mornings only... and yet I still don't leave school till 4 most days. Those 4 hours are unpaid. It is, however, the only way I can make sure I have my weekends sand evenings free to relax, look after myself and grow a healthy baby, and spend time with DP.

I refuse to feel bad about having to vent about my career. I work hard and I am a good teacher - I know this because of performance management and Estyn inspections. I know this because the parents of my children tell me and my children enjoy coming to my class. Sometimes people just need to vent. I have been known to say "I hate my job!" but I do genuinely love teaching. It's jsut the rest of the shite that goes with it that I hate.

Oh I see. It is about getting rid of older teachers, who I suspect you also see as blocking your career path.

Why am I not surprised given how many older teachers on UPS are hounded out on trumped up capability claims?

Ackvavit- are you an nqt? Do you have a family? It's only a job, you know. I agree you can't do it very well if you don't love it (I'm just speaking for myself, though; I'm sure there are plenty of amazing teachers who are just "walking the walk" because they have bills to pay). However, you're bloody naive to think that everyone who goes into teaching does so for the love of the children. Also- not sure how your colleagues would be getting away with what they're claiming they are, so perhaps they were exaggerating for effect?

(If you are an nqt, I give you about five years before you start realising how idealistic you are/were being, and how you wouldn't do the job for free even if you won the lottery!)

Ackvavit

Could you martyr yourself a bit more?

Not NQT. Not idealistic. Not jealous of them, I have similar role and salary. Just disappointed that the perks and holidays and good remuneration in times of austerity seem to be something adults think are OK to brag about.

Benefit claimants as one poster said I do not and have not had a problem with. Scroungers - and that is meant for those who could work but do not. I fully support benefits being available to all willing to work as well.

I have just come back to MN after the hacking. It used to be a much more pleasant forum. I'm not bothered if you disagree with me, my OP was more about being professional as a paid professional in a public space.

So you won't be socialising with them again presumably?

Gosh OP, you actually remind me of some of the self righteous new nurses I've met over the years. It's always fun when you meet them a few years down the line. You'll be one of the 'older' teachers being judged by the newbies. It goes full circle you know.

using newer teachers who care about the pupils first
Oh bog off!

Thinking about this, I have a friend who is working on the leadership scale for doing a classroom teacher post, because the school struggle to recruit good teachers.

Supply and demand, isn't it? Always has been. At present, there's more of a demand than a supply probably how I got my job

1. A head who is not doing their job will be found out very quickly. Theres so much to do, and if it isnt done it is obvious.
2. Going out for lunch with friends during the holidays chatting all about work is unreasonable in itself.

• they aren't my long term colleagues, the original post makes that clear.(

From the OP: Just been to lunch with group of people I've worked with on and off over many years. We all have varying degrees of friendship but generally have always got along well and socialised over the years

Excuse the confusion!

OP, if it was that bad, why the hell did you sit mute and listen to it? And why aren't you doing something constructive about it?

I'll forget that for what it costs their school to run one year group in salary they could run 3 using newer teachers who care about the pupils first.

Night all, not a pleasant forum when all I'm suggesting is that people earning a decent wage and responsible for educating the future adults of our society behave a little less brash.

I'm actually struggling to believe that you are a teacher. Your written English and ability to express yourself clearly isn't satisfactory. How on earth do you teach pupils? Give me a slightly cynical, jaded, but proven, senior teacher any day. If you haven't progressed up the career path as much as those you are criticising, that might well be the reason.

my OP was more about being professional as a paid professional in a public space.

Indeed.