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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Doctors appointment 'did not attend' on my notes

51 replies

Waitingimpatient · 21/10/2015 11:35

About a year ago I had a gp appt that I had to reschedule but due to miscommunication between the receptionists I ended up with a 'dna' on my notes. Apparently after three you have to leave the surgery. I asked them to take it off, they would not

Yesterday I was meant to have an appt. on Monday I'd received a text reminder (as I always do) and it said 'if you need to cancel text CANCEL to this number' which I did.
I've always phoned before but seeing as they always send these texts (and also ones asking for feedback) I thought I'd do it as was in a rush and it was easier than being on hold on the phone.

I got a shitty phone call today. Apparently I did not attend again. I explained I had replied to the text so I had in fact cancelled as per the instructions in the text to which the receptionist shouted at me "you shouldn't have done that. We don't get the texts you are always meant to phone" wtf??? Why send them then. She then proceeded to tell me one more 'dna' and I have to find another surgery

They can't do this can they? And what is the point of them sending these texts if they are useless.
AIBU to be fuming about this, the way I was spoken to and these two undeserved 'dna' on my notes?

OP posts:
yeOldeTrout · 21/10/2015 12:57

Do DNAs really cost that much money (bear with me)? I can't imagine the doc or nurse sits there & twiddles their thumbs during the unexpected ten minutes. They must catch up on other paperwork or get a long over-due cuppa or snack or a grateful if unexpected dash to the loo. The hours are long enough, I don't see why the staff have to be worked like factory units every precious minute, else productivity is lost & "the NHS loses money."

I'm having trouble buying this thesis.

That someone else could have had the appt. but has had to wait longer for medical attn is a better reason to not be a DNA.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 21/10/2015 12:58

Op do you still have the message you sent back?

MackerelOfFact · 21/10/2015 12:58

Eminado Yes, that's why it's three strikes, and not one. Of course there will be unforeseeable events that prohibit attendance, but that won't make up the vast majority of missed appointments for most people.

cdtaylornats · 21/10/2015 13:03

The vast amount of missed appointments I've seen in my local surgery only cause the late-running appointments to catch up.

MackerelOfFact · 21/10/2015 13:05

GP DNAs in England cost £162m+ per year according to NHS England.

I guess the main reasons are people being delayed treatment, meaning they end up needing more urgent/extensive treatment which is more expensive, and the cost of keeping a practice staffed and running during the empty appointment slots. Obviously if the appointment hadn't been missed, the urgent patient still wouldn't have been seen any sooner though, so I don't quite know how they work it out.

Mistigri · 21/10/2015 13:05

It depends how long the DNAs stay on record surely? Three strikes in a year - fair enough; three in a couple of decades seems more unreasonable.

MummaV · 21/10/2015 13:05

My practice tried to remove me from their list due to 3 DNAs. These were 3 appointments out of 4 over 2 days (I had to see a nurse twice a day for 3 weeks). After the first appointment they called me an ambulance and sent me to hospital where I was kept over night meaning I obviously could not keep the afternoon or next days appointments. No one bothered to tell their appointment system that THEY had sent me to hospital.
It took 2 months of back and forth with the practice manager to accept that it was not my fault and to add me back to their patient list.

These automated systems do not work without human intervention. One day they will realise that.
Keep fighting it with the practice manager.

capsium · 21/10/2015 13:06

Years ago, when I was student, you could attend a different surgery, than the one you were registered if you needed to. For example, I attended the surgery in my home town whilst registered at one near my university. If you are ill on holiday I assume you could attend a local surgery if you need to.

Won't the three strikes and you are out just mean more emergency appointments? You cannot be refused NHS treatment can you?

MedSchoolRat · 21/10/2015 13:21

I guess the main reasons are people being delayed treatment, meaning they end up needing more urgent/extensive treatment

No, am pretty sure that's not how it's calculated. Or not precisely anyway. Because that would mean very carefully following people thru the system and you can't do it without permission from each individual plus the different systems don't even tie up together well enough; I'm sweating to think of the ethics committee procedure that would have to be followed to get the data. Always sweat at thought of ethics committee

A simple £14/GP appt value makes a lot more sense in producing these numbers. Treating the staff like machines that dispense identical value service at each consultation. An example from Manchester, all £££ values calculated from staff salaries near as I can tell from quick glance.

diddl · 21/10/2015 13:22

I don't disagree in theory, but it needs to have some common sense input as well!

As for shouting at you for using the text!

Could you change surgeries if necessary?

StrictlyMumDancing · 21/10/2015 13:24

I had four DNAs with a previous surgery. None of which were my fault. Two were the surgery booking me appts at the wrong time (as in I called for an emergency appointment, they said come in at 10am and when I got there they said 'your appointment is for next week' and then they didn't cancel the appointments after slotting me in that day) and two were appointments made for a different patient with a remotely similar name. I have no clue if the correct patient actually showed up, but I didn't oddly!

I chose to leave them after that and other rubbishness.

Eminado · 21/10/2015 13:25

mackerel

Key word being MOST.
If OP is bothered enough to ring back /try to sort it out then maybe, just maybe, it would not hurt to apply some common sense? Hmm

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 21/10/2015 13:26

Being honest..did you speak her nicely before she "shouted" (which I doubt she did) or did you phone and complain and talk to her like dirt.

Not saying you DID as I don't know you.

But being a receptionist it does often happen that people phone and talk to you like dirt then complain you are unfriendly if you then aren't full of sweetness and light to them (despite being perfectly professional and trying to help).

Verbena37 · 21/10/2015 13:27

But the OP is totally within her rights to cancel her appointment and it doesn't matter if it's three times. She could be ill, she could be going to a funeral, she could have the kids at home I'll etc. they cannot put DNA for cancellations.....that's mad!

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 21/10/2015 13:27

Apart from that if the system is bad complain to practice manager

And also even if you shouted at her first she needs to be able to rein it in a bit. But that takes practice.

diddl · 21/10/2015 13:29

Do you like your Dr, OP?

It does sound as if the receptionist you dealt with isn't great, but I wouldn't move if you like you Dr.

bigbluebus · 21/10/2015 13:35

My local hospital uses one of these automated systems to remind people of appointments and get them to confirm their attendance. It is slightly complicated and annoying but I have got used to it now.
Every time I attend a clinis appointment (and I go to a lot of different ones), the clerks offer to remove my phone number from the system. Something tells me that they think the system is a pain in the backside. In fact the last clerk I spoke to showed me a long computer printout of all the phone calls she would now have to make as a result of the automated system - hardly saving time and money.
Eventually, if people complain about these systems enough they will do away with them and bring back real people.
OP I would definitely get the practice manager to explain why their system does not do what it says and cancel unwanted appointments.

diddl · 21/10/2015 13:48

Also, if OP got a reminder on Monday re an appointment yesterday with an option to cancel, then obviously that is deemed an acceptable time limit within which to cancel!.

It all sounds so ridiculously complicated-reminders, options to cancel.

I wonder if it is because this is thought to be helpful or that patients are so incompetent that it is necessary?

KurriKurri · 21/10/2015 13:51

I got a DNA for a hospital appointment. I arrived at 4pm (as per my appointment letter) to be told my appointment had been changed to 11 am that morning therefore I had missed it. I started to complain that no one had told me and was told I 'would have been sent a letter' - I hadn't been sent one, they didn't believe me.
It's quite a difficult journey for me to get to the hospital and I had wasted time and money getting there (I had to get a taxi) and was then told off. Two days later, my change of appointment letter came in the post - two days after the appointment.
The next day I got a shirty DNA letter in the post. After a lot of faffing and phoning I was able to get them to change the DNA on my record, but there was no apology for messing me about and I had to wait another month for a new appointment - delaying the start of a new treatment.

I totally agree with striking off time wasters who can't be bothered to cancel an appointment and stop people getting appointments because they don't turn up and don't tell anyone. But they need to save their wrath for those people not take it out on people who have had a genuine misunderstanding or emergency or where the hospital has in fact made the mistake.

Badders123 · 21/10/2015 14:00

Write to the practise manager.
Common sense seems to have deserted the NHS sadly.

RockNRollNerd · 21/10/2015 14:16

Common sense seems to have deserted the NHS sadly.

I'm typing this looking at a pile of appointment slips from our local hospital:

  • original appointment, booked by me a year ago after I'd agreed with the consultant we didn't need annual checks to keep telling us the same thing but that one before transition to secondary school would be useful (so at this stage I've freed up 3 appointments for other to use)
  • letter cancelling the appointment in a fit of panic in response to the most recent CQC review of the hospital but telling me that patients can be readded to the list for an appointment before they go to secondary school

  • slip cancelling the appointment in addition to the letter

  • further slip declaring that the original appointment has been cancelled and has been rebooked for exactly the same date and time as the original one!

This is not an effective way to run a huge operation; however I fear it's due to a combination of panic and fear due to the pressures our hospital have been put under and crap systems (which funnily enough contributed to all the financial problems they've been bollocked over and led to resourcing and time issues amongst staff)...

Badders123 · 21/10/2015 14:34

I despair, I really do.
I used to work in NHS admin before I had the DC and the amount of waste and paperwork was ridiculous.
The new computer system that cost £££££ millions and didn't work was a real highlight!
I have had;
Letters for appointment for that day and you ring and say...sorry! Only just got the letter and then they are surprised when you can't attend!
"Can I put the baby in the car and drive 20 miles right now? Er.....no!"
A couple of years ago my sons paed appt was cancelled 7 times. He was supposed to be seen in July...finally got seen in October! I got multiple copies of letters, letters not on headed paper, letters printed upside down....
One issue is sending letters out 2nd class.
There is hardly any difference in cost now so why not send all letters 1st class? Or negotiate a preferential rate for the NHS?
I agree serial non attenders should get some sort of fine but it's coo in sense that a person cannot attend an appt they know nothing about!
One thing that really annoyed me when I had to run clinics was that you could almost predict how many no shows you would have if it was Xmas week or a bank holiday.
I remember some clinics near Xmas where only 2/3 people showed up.
Why?
Why make a bloody appt if you have no intention of attending?

wasonthelist · 21/10/2015 14:48

Yanbu both my DM and I have had incorrect "strikes" for this due to admin balls ups ( mine was a hospital). Curiously, much more dilligence seems to be devoted to penalising us for things we haven't done than to getting the details right in the first place.

PingpongDingDong · 21/10/2015 14:52

Yanbu. My dad had this at the hospital, rescheduled an appt and was then told by his gp that the hospital had contacted him to say he hadn't shown up. An understandable mishap but they wouldn't change it either.