To get fed up with people with people like Jamie Oliver trying to coerce poor people via taxation.

[Booyaka]

I absolutely loathe Jamie Oliver anyway, but this crusade of his over sugar is driving me mad. I think something possibly needs to be done about sugar, but I don't think this is the way to do it. He did make a suggestion about prominently labelling total number of teaspoons of sugar in a product, which seemed quite sensible. But mainly he was pushing the tax angle.

Jamie Oliver's entire schtick seems to be that poor people can't be trusted to make the right decisions so they should instead be priced out to force them to make the decisions that he and his ilk believe that they should be making.

It bloody annoys me that they seem to think if you are wealthy and can afford them anyway you can be trusted to make the right decision anyway, but if you're poor you need to be coerced, and that coercion, of something as basic as what you eat and drink, is fine as long as you are poor. He did very much concentrate on handwringing about 'the deprived' too and how this tax would seemingly save them from themselves.

Apparently 1/3 of the products he sell in his restaurants are high sugar anyway, but he probably doesn't mind that, because he prices his tat so highly only middle class people can afford it and they're sensible enough to be trusted with sugar unlike the proles.

He probably doesn't realise, but a lot of people can't afford to take their kids to Tuscany or the Caribbean, Cornwall or even Skeg-bloody-ness. They can't buy their kids a lot of toys or give them days out. Is it really fair to give these people a financial kicking for giving their kids one of the few treats they can afford? Especially when many of them do so sensibly and in moderation.

Lovely, I wish we had a sweet ban too! I would also be seen as bonkers if I suggested it though.

Tenants left for up to ten weeks without a functioning and in some cases dangerous kitchen.

An old lady left for 72 hours without running water. No cooking facilities for 5 weeks after contracters damaged a cooker. Just some of the comments.

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/bromley/8380677.ORPINGTON__Tenants_take_hostage_in_kitchen_renovation_war/

What about corporate responsibility.

After re reading it it seems two different tenants cookers were damaged.

News Flash: kitchen renovation runs over schedule.

I'm not really sure what your point is Helena - this thread is about obesity which costs the NHS at least 10x more than your extremely dubious claim of 600M. This kind of broken cooker/boiler stuff happens to everyone, and by the way, how in the world does the Guardian happen to know which the 'coldest quarter of homes' in the UK are?

I don't find it hard to believe that the public housing stock is mismanaged, because it's the public sector.

Sarah Ive seen HAs on twitter preaching about how to help their tenants with healthy eating.

Its hypocrisy.

I posted upthread about a woman who was left with no cooking facilities. And social services provided a mini cooker on Christmas Eve.

There was a huge renovation on an estate in the North. The kitchens were ripped out and so were the sockets so there wasnt even the facility to plug in a microwave. They were TOLD that they would have to live on takeaways. And this went on for four weeks.

And overrunning is a bullshit excuse. My dad was a builder and worked with people in the trade and they put kitchens in in the space of 3 to 4 days.

Helena I would guess that the vast majority of tenants in social housing have adequate cooking facilities and indeed adequate living conditions.

How long it took your dad to put in a kitchen is not relevant. I have no doubt that it's possible to put in a kitchen on time. That doesn't change the reality of building delays, which happen all the time for preventable and unpreventable reasons alike.

What do you mean my claim is dubious. Because it doesnt fit your agenda to bash poorer/overweight people. I did put up a link backing it up. Ive yet to see you do the same.

Sarah the workmen were doing two hours work and then pissing off, There are loads of experiences in the comments.

And i can provide many many other links.

mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/the-truth-about-social-housing/

What do you mean my claim is dubious.

Well for starters, I'd like to know how the Guardian knows which are the coldest quarter of houses in the UK. That can only be self-reported, and it would exclude huge numbers of households. How is that meaningful?

It's probably best to start a thread about this if you really want to discuss this further. I'd happily join.

From the link

An Elephant's Childsaid:January 28, 2013 at 12:08 am
Good luck. I have been without heat since the 1st week of November & there is no sign of them doing anything about it.
I live in a council house, but the council has handed the day-to-day maintenance of their housing stock to Dane Plus Housing Association.
A man turned up on Nov 6th to do my annual gas safety check, told me the fire ‘wasn’t safe’ & said he would ‘cap the gas meter’.
I had no idea what he meant so I let him go ahead. It was only afterwards that I realised he had in fact turned my gas off.
I have no hot water, no heating & no means of cooking hot food. The only warmth I have comes from my kettle, via hot-water bottles, cups of coffee & pot noodles.
I have tried, repeatedly to get some sort of resolution from either Dane Plus or the coucil, but both claim it is nothing to do with them!
I have yet to even get an explanation of why I needed to put in this position!
You are right, this is NOT social housing!

This thread is about Jamie Oliver and his ideas for combating obesity. If it is to be discussed it has to include ALL causes and correlations I think being left without decent cooking facilities for weeks or months is relevant How can it not be.

Maybe because it's happening to a minority of tenants, and can't be considered a significant factor in obesity?

It shouldnt be happening to anyone. Either this is about health or its about poor bashing and i have a nasty feeling that its more likely to be the latter.

And to your post about someone, somewhere who lost their heat at some time still does not answer my question: How does the Guardian know which are the coldest quarter of homes in the UK?

So the obesity epidemic should not be tackled because occasionally for a period a small number of people do not have kitchen facilities

I was without a kitchen for a few months recently, yes we had the occasional take away but I still managed to provide my kids with a decent meal.

How does the Guardian know which are the coldest quarter of homes in the UK?

It is surveyed on behalf of the government. "The English housing survey is a continuous national survey commissioned by the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG). It collects information about people’s housing circumstances and the condition and energy efficiency of housing in England."

I think it highlights that there is no smoking gun in the obesity issue. There is no One Single Cause IMO. There are a lot of factors contributing to it. I don't foresee it being stopped, but I would think some changes could make a difference.

The fact that many more people are obese now than were years ago obviously means something. We need to look at various things, make a comparison, and see if improvements/changes can be made.

For example:

Less children play outside because:

• they play on video games inside
• many people don't know their neighbours or neighbour's children
• some areas are unsafe to play outside due to traffic or other factors
• both parents working means children are not home, but often at childcare or afterschool programmes (which may or may not be active) and by the time they're home, it's too late to be outside playing as they need to eat and do homework.
• excessive homework with no time for play
• neighbours complain about noise when children go outside to play

So then how are children going to get exercise by playing outside? Parents often don't have the time afterschool to take their children to the park to play, which is often the suggested place by cranky neighbours. There are threads on MN of people complaining about children making noise, jumping on trampolines in their own backyards, throwing balls. Many parents can't afford to take children to organised fee based activities for sports. So what then?

Helena 'fitted kitchens' are a very recent thing, really. People still managed to cook proper meals without them. Yes it is bad for those tenants, it's still a very small number.

I agree that some people are living in poor housing conditions regarding inadequate heating and damp. That's more related to other caring ditions than obesity though. In fact I have read that central heating is actually a contributory factor in obesity as less calories are needed to keep warm. I don't know if that has been scientifically proven though.

helena

while those things are all bad, I don't see what they have to do with JO. you can't be suggesting that we not even begin to tackle the obesity problem until we solve all housing issues?

im not bothering to read the entire thread but im gluten intolerant and my food is full of sugar i pay a fortune for my food if they tax sugary food im in financial trouble or im not eating (and my bread is the worst for sugar)

Great post Ginger Ivy Thats what i meant by looking at everything.

Its the hypocrisy. You cant preach about healthy eating without looking at every cause and correlation. And you certainly cant preach about it and then CAUSE the problems.

A lot of ppl were pearl clutching about how much obesity costs the NHS. But poor housing costs the NHS too Its interesting that when i have pointed this out i have been told that these claims are dubious on this thread (despite being the one to provide a link) and got called boring on another thread.

BOTH cost the NHS Is it monopoly money in the case of poor housing NO Its still money But this gets dismissed because its much more fun and easy to demonize and "other" poorer overweight people.

It never ceases to amaze me that in human nature there always seems to be a need to find a group of people to feel superior to.

And thats what is at the bottom of this. Its a lot harder to feel superior to a big corporation (whether thats the food industry or large housing corps) who are making a lot of money. But much easier to feel superior to those it is easier to treat as "other"

Who's the prick with the fork?!

Have not read full thread and do not intend to as bed is calling.

But Jamie Oliver was the marketing face behind Tate & Lyle's adverts only a few years ago - yes the largest sugar refiner- and espoused the benefits and goodness of sugar.

All that information appears to have been expunged from the internet.

Sweet dreams........