'sunday drivers' 40mph everywhere

[angelos02]

Just had a weekend away in the countryside and at least half a dozen times got stuck behind people that shouldn't be allowed to drive. Doing 40mph in national speed limit zones & the same in built up 20 mph areas. Note to you Numpties...if there is big line of traffic behind you, you are probably driving dangerously.

Os "Os I still fail to understand how driving slower than the speed limit is dangerous (dual carriageways aside). eg on a 30mph road or a 40mph.

Do you fail to understand that your driving may impact upon other people's journeys?"

No, I asked a specific question which I notice you were unable to answer other than the person behind might get frustrated and might be an idiot who overtakes dangerously. That most certainly does make it the fault of the person behind. They have the choice to over take or not. Driving slower than the speed limit will certainly disrupt the flow of the traffic but it's still not 'dangerous'

Speeding isn't dangerous until you crash into something. Drunk driving isn't dangerous until you actually mow someone down. And like those examples, albeit to a lesser degree, the police will take action if a driver is driving excessively slowly. You might say that's never happened to you. I would say that many people still use their mobile phones while driving as long if they can get away with it.

I think that you sound possibly the most dangerous driver on this thread, due to your lack of concern for anyone else on the road than yourself, or to take responsibility for your actions. That is an attitude you have in common with most dangerous drivers.

Obviously when an accident does occur, an investigation will be carried out to assess the evidence. Until and unless that happens it is a moot point to say whether something is or isn't dangerous. It has been pointed out to you why excessively slow driving so as to disrupt the flow of traffic can be dangerous, yet you refuse to believe this, and would rather engage in egotistical points scoring, because your ego tells you that your driving is beyond challenge.

So, a lot of people here seem to be saying that you should be reaching NSL on a wide road in good conditions, otherwise you are driving dangerously? So if I am driving at say, 50/55 that would cause consternation?

And if I am at driving at say, 45 on an extremely bendy NSL road, perhaps in bad weather, that is also dangerous?

If I have understood this right, then I have to say I am confused, because it is going against everything I have been taught in my (recent) driving lessons. I have been taught that the NSL is there as a LIMIT not a TARGET and that I should be judging the road on the possible hazards it may present (bends, narrow, poor visibility etc). I have a rear view mirror - I can see people approaching - and they can see me.

People who crawl along in fast situations can be dangerous, but it does seem like many people here are very aggressive and impatient.

So, a lot of people here seem to be saying that you should be reaching NSL on a wide road in good conditions, otherwise you are driving dangerously? So if I am driving at say, 50/55 that would cause consternation?

50? Probably. 55? maybe not. Are you also aware that most speedometers are off, so your 50 may be closer to 45?

And if I am at driving at say, 45 on an extremely bendy NSL road, perhaps in bad weather, that is also dangerous?

What don't you understand about the "in good conditions" part? Don't be obtuse.

If I have understood this right, then I have to say I am confused, because it is going against everything I have been taught in my (recent) driving lessons. I have been taught that the NSL is there as a LIMIT not a TARGET

Yes, that is incorrect. It is, in fact, a target. You should be driving at the speed limit unless there are reasons not to.

and that I should be judging the road on the possible hazards it may present (bends, narrow, poor visibility etc).

That is correct. Those are the "reasons not to" part.

I have a rear view mirror - I can see people approaching - and they can see me.

I'd bloody hope so!

but it does seem like many people here are very aggressive and impatient.

No, but it's often the case that you're stuck on a perfectly straight road, with lots of visibility & no obstacles, but some people still trundle along at 40.

The whole point of being a competent driver is that you analyse the conditions, visibility etc and drive appropriately.

You'll never convince me that sitting at 40 for the varying conditions of your average country road is driving appropriately - the people we're talking about never speed up, they dodder along no matter if it's straight or twisty, light or dark, wet or dry....

They're the ones I'm not convinced should be on the road...

Noone has yet to say why driving slow is dangerous

As has been mentioned previously, slow driving in itself isn't bad if there are no other road users.

its like the story in india of when a couple of cars got better brakes compared to the majority they kept getting tailended

Every time I read comments by all these selfish entitled drivers moaning about those who aren't trashing their way along the roads ignoring the potential needs of cyclists, walkers, horses, people crossing the roads and a myriad of other reasons where thought and care when driving are needed, I think of cases like this (apologies for the DM link):
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3280592/Girl-suffered-catastrophic-injuries-baby-speeding-teenage-heir-130million-fortune-hit-parents-car-dies-hospital-nine-years-later.html

The consequences are not worth it. Speed kills and while the 20 mph limit seems a real pain in parts of London, if it makes drivers realise that they are not the most important people on the road and their wish to drive fast should not outweigh the needs of the rest of us, then I'll abide by it.

in response to a question last night:
pootle
?pu?t(?)l/Submit
verbBRITISHinformal
move or travel in a leisurely manner.
"they were pootling down a canal in their new boat"

Don't be obtuse

I don't get why people on this thread are countering the OP's assertion that driving too slowly is dangerous with aggressive retorts about how driving too fast is more dangerous. They're both dangerous, people! It's not a competition! Everyone should be driving at a speed and in a manner that takes into account road layout, actual and potential obstructions, weather conditions and visibility, and the needs of other road users. Anyone who feels they can't do this, or can't do it yet, or can't do it anymore, needs to get help with that, because you're moving 4 tonnes of metal around and if you get it wrong you'll do damage!

This comes from the Highway Code book that I have (2007 edition).

"Point 146: Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular
Do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate to drive at the maximum speed limit."

because you're moving 4 tonnes of metal around

Bloody hell, what do you drive?

Every time I read comments by all these selfish entitled drivers moaning about those who aren't trashing their way along the roads ignoring the potential needs of cyclists, walkers, horses, people crossing the roads and a myriad of other reasons where thought and care when driving are needed, I think of cases like this

So you imagine we all want to do 70mph in a 30mph, on the wrong side of a residential road?

So if I am driving at say, 50/55 that would cause consternation?

Honest answer: Why aren't you doing 60 (on a good road, good conditions, no mitigating circumstances)?

because you're moving 4 tonnes of metal around

Bloody hell, what do you drive?

Sorry, showing my age - don't do metric very well! 2 tonnes, though, which is pretty standard for a family car. Point holds.

Ford Focus 1.2 tonnes.
Nissan Qashqai (sp?) 1.6 tonnes max.
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 tonnes.

Completely beside the point, given the damage that will be done anyway, but cars are perhaps lighter than you think!

So if I am driving at say, 50/55 that would cause consternation?

I would be likely to sit at a safe distance behind you and relax. I might overtake you if a particularly good, clear opportunity presented itself on this wide, dry, straight rural road.

I still think you are rather selfish in being so unaware that more drivers than not would prefer to drive at the national speed limit, rather than some arbitrary limit set by you, and that you will cause a lot of overtaking as a result of your driving.

In reality, I find that 50/55mph is not a problem, its when drivers think they are doing that but actually wander between 45-48mph due to under-estimation by manufacturers of the speedometer, and who brake constantly to lower speeds for little reason, or who go excessively slowly around corners, again over-braking, causing all the other cars behind them to have to take avoiding action.

Surely a good driver not only looks far ahead and sees possible obstacles/dangers, but also has an awareness of everything going on around them, including cars behind them? And that their driving may affect other people too?

For me, people driving well below the speed limit when the conditions would permit safe driving at or near the speed limit for that road are dangerous. They are apparently oblivious to the road conditions, the flow of traffic, the environment they are driving in. That's what makes them dangerous, the fact they are in their own little world and not driving to the conditions of the road.

To be a safe driver you need to be 100% aware of what's going on around you and look ahead - be responsive to the road, the conditions and the traffic. Of course you need to factor in weather, animals, windy roads, other traffic etc but if conditions permit then yes you should be driving at or near the stated speed limit for that road.

"Point 146: Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular
Do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate to drive at the maximum speed limit."

It's very obvious what it's saying: don't try to drive at the maximum speed limit when it's not appropriate. It's under adapt your driving, not default driving. That's exactly what everybody has said!

If you really weren't being obtuse and you don't understand how an "extremely bendy" road in "bad weather" doesn't constitute "good conditions", you need further driving lessons rather than a discussion forum.

There are two roads near to me which are a 40 and there is often someone in front doing a 30.

I am a cautious driver and on NSL roads I often go below the speed limit. I used to drive on a country road most days and people would bomb around the corners but if a lorry was coming the other way you would be fucked. There are a lot of pull over places so if people were up my arse I would pull in and let them over take.

But on the two 40 roads there is no reason to do 30 unless it's rush hour. And yes, it is annoying. I passed my test two years ago and I was taught to always do the limit when it was safe to do so. Doing 30 in a 40 without safety reasons to do so would be an instant fail.

One of the roads is the main route to the hospital. It's annoying that someone is doing a 30 when there is no good reason not to do 40. I assume they aren't very good at reading signs and road conditions and therefore are probably crap drivers.

Indeed Zoe.

There is a very busy main road near me with a 50 limit. At about 9 p.m. yesterday I drove it for the first time since major road works began with lane closures, cones, contraflows, the lot; the limit has been reduced to 40.

And I had to follow it in the dark with all these new hazards and I went at 30-32, and to hell with anyone who felt that was too slow; I'm looking at you, Madam behind me in the red BMW, who flashed me like a boy racer. I was right and you were wrong. And when you shot off after the road works at what must have been over 60 I hope the bloody cameras got you.

I still think you are rather selfish in being so unaware that more drivers than not would prefer to drive at the national speed limit, rather than some arbitrary limit set by you. Bloody hell, this isn't about being selfish, it's about using my personal judgement for my family's safety. I am driving within the upper end of the speed limit (and no, it's not a target) - not some 'arbitrary limit' set by me. We are not all robots, manufactured to the same settings, people will drive according to what feels safe for them. As I become a more experienced driver, I would imagine that my speed will probably increase, but for now, this is how it is. Perhaps YOU are being selfish?

Bloody hell, this isn't about being selfish, it's about using my personal judgement for my family's safety.

That is in itself a very selfish statement. Of course you shouldn't only care about your own family's safety. Do you not care about other road users at all?

Astonishing. You are obviously a very inexperienced driver who is hardly a good judge on this. I would suggest you take some advanced driving lessons.

if conditions permit then yes you should be driving at or near the stated speed limit for that road

Yes, this. And actually, if you forget all about the speedo for a minute and just drive appropriately for the road, then 9 times out of 10 an experienced driver will intuitively be just about on the prevailing speed limit. And that is the sort of responsiveness we should all be aiming for. The exception to that are the sorts of country lane where the limit is the NSL as a default, where safe speeds vary wildly, or occasionally where a stretch of road has an inappropriate speed limit, which, very often, local people are campaigning to change. I shall not speak of 20mph zones in urban areas as I have my blood pressure to think of.

Waste of time Scremersford - the fact that she's more likely to cause a crash due to being distracted by her family than driving at an appropriate speed for the road doesn't come into it.

You can't reason with nervous drivers some people....

I went at 30-32

Is that your speedo reading?