To think school should have for DS1 sons spelling and tables sorted by now?

[Maybemable]

Generally I'm happy with the primary school our 4 kids go to. DS1 is in year 5. We have always been told he is on track with his spelling and his maths. However he doesn't reliably know his times tables and his written work is littered with spelling mistakes. He is in a bulge year and the choice of secondary schools for boys near us isn't great. Ideally he needs to take the 11 plus however he is light years away from being able to. When we asked the head about it he said DS reading was "good", that the school is rolling out its spelling policy and that home support is vital. I'm trying to do 15 mins a day of maths with him and 15 mins of spellings but he needs an hour a day and that isn't feasible on a daily basis with 3 other kids and a job. The school is ranked good by Ofsted - I expected them to have done more to make sure he has a good standard of maths and English by now. Tempted to take him out one day a week to home school - we can't afford a tutor.

I learnt my times tables and spelling at home after school and weekends, I didn't manage to do it at school, perhaps because I needed the 1:1 teaching at home. Perhaps you need to try what you can to get the school to do more but also devote some time at the weekend aswell to it, plus perhaps there are ways to do times tables and spelling whilst doing other things, school run\cooking dinner etc, whatever is practical.

We cracked times tables by singing them relentlessly in the car!

I remember sayings hem in the kitchen to my mum while she made dinner. She used that time to get our times tables and spelling done.

There are only 5 hours for teaching (approx) in any school day and 13 odd subjects to cover. Schools will be doing English and Maths every day but there still needs to be reinforcement and practice at home if you want them to do really well.

Generally to succeed in the 11+ a child does need to be pretty excellent for their age at Maths, English and reasoning - they also need to be happy to study outside of school with adult support for the test as not enough will be covered at school. The children at state schools will be pitted against those from private schools who have benefited form smaller classes, longer school days and extra coaching usually so have to work quite hard. I write as an ex 11+ tutor.

In real life, however, most people manage very well without actually knowing their tables perfectly although it does speed you up a bit in test conditions.

I don't think times tables are really worth the time tbh, so long as they are utterly confident in how to work it out. All that practicing could be used for things that are a lot more important and interesting. I never learnt mine and I ended up with a maths degree.

If really just doesn't "get" maths, or at least multiplication, or if he's not that confident in maths, then rote learning tables could be a good way to spend all that time. But otherwise there are probably many other things you could spend 15 minutes a day on that will be much more beneficial to his education.

He needs to read more to improve his spelling and get him grammar school test ready.

Does your DS read a lot? In my experience, children who do and enjoy it are better spellers and writers - it all goes hand in hand.

The school probably is trying to ensure your child knows the things you expect him to know, but they aren't miracle workers and they can't force things to stick in a child's head. It doesn't mean that the teaching isn't happening, but some children just don't learn these things as easily as others. The school will have even more time pressure on them than you do, and many more children to consider.

Education is not something that is purely a schools responsibility, and while I take the point that some parents are illiterate and there are other family circumstances that can prevent a child being well supported at home, schools are not parents and cannot be expected to fulfil the role of parents. Yes it's unfair on some children, but that is the fault of parents, not schools.

Maybe these things just don't stick with him the same way they do with others? I don't think its the schools "fault".

How exactly would you like them to 'sort it'?

Every student in the class learns at a different rate, and whilst the school may in fact be working with him on these tasks, there is no magic switch that you can flick to just have a child suddenly be fluent. It takes a lot of work, both at home and school, especially for some students.

Ask for a meeting with the teacher, and ask how you can work together to help support your DS. But I do encourage you to drop the phrase 'sort it' from your discussion.

"Also if grammar schools base their admissions on timetables recitation speed then they are too dumb to bother with."

Of course they don't. They base their admissions on things like being able to work out fractions quickly and accurately (among many, many other things).

But a child is going to have difficulty working out fractions quickly and effortlessly if their mental processes are all cluttered up with having to laboriously "work out" their tables by doing stupid little gimmicky tricks with their fingers etc. etc. They need to have this stuff on instant recall.

Maths is relentlessly linear--it builds on what has been learned before.

As for "sorting it"--my primary school did various round-the-class chanting activities, and a timed test every single morning. There will always be a small number of kids who struggle badly no matter what the school does, but the great majority of us knew our tables very well indeed by age 10.

Maths isn't relentlessly linear at all. There are huge branches of mathematics that barely have a thing to do with numbers and arithmetic.

Which isn't to say tables aren't useful, but I think most people would be better off spending 15 minutes a day practicing estimation than tables for day to day maths use. And probably pattern recognition and spacial awareness for really developing mathematical ability. May not help with 11+ so much though.

You can get away without learning them at all if you're particularly strong at maths. Calculate them at speed enough times and after a while you get instant recall without the quick calculation. Or ever needing the chanting. But for most it does make it easier to learn them, on the proviso they understand how to do the calculating part too.

Back to the op, yes schools should try their best to get children to a certain level, but in fairness that level is not 11+ across the board. Once you get past the basic level, I see their duty as being towards maximising each individuals potential equally as much as is practical.

Going back far more years than I care to remember, my parents weren't satisfied that my school no longer taught times tables the way they'd learned them, eg. by chanting them out day after day, week after week until they were branded into your brain. So they taught me how to do them at home, by constant repetition out loud. I know all of them off by heart, and have done since I was about 8.

Yes, I know that these days schools like children to learn the 'why' as well as the 'how' but there will always be some who struggle with the 'why' bit. Instant recall of times tables learned by rote would really help them.

Sometimes the old ways are the best.

Ive never known mine, and I cant say Ive noticed it holding me back now we have calulators and computers so easily available.

Some exams are non-calculator though, aren't they? And it really helps check your answers (even if you have used a calculator) if you can use quick-recall mental arithmetic.

Im not saying it will never be helpful, just that it might not be regarded as quite so critical as it used to be.