to ask my DH for a bit more help in dual career situation?

[mowayjose]

Just that really. Dual careers plus DC. My DH earns more than me, always has. And he earns quite a lot. That difference plus the fact that my job has always been more flexible (although I do work full time) has historically seemed to justify the fact that during the week, effectively he does nothing in relation to the kids. My salary is gradually creeping up in relation to his but he still does very, very little. I mainly understand this because his job is undoubtedly full-on and high stress, more so than mine. But to be fair, my job is not completely without it's pressures.

The other day he was working from home. I asked for some help getting the kids dressed, breakfasted, and ready to get out of the door. He got one DC dressed, then wandered off and I found him at his desk getting on with his work. I was pretty furious. When I mentioned this he made me feel as though I was being totally unreasonable and a bit of a cow, to be honest. This is a relatively regular event. He said that he had to make a call although this hadn't been mentioned earlier. He also has a habit of taking things to the extreme and saying for example, "if you want help I will HAND IN MY NOTICE, I'd LOVE to be at home, and then we can just live on your salary!" Which he knows is somewhat impractical at the moment. So .... check mate.

He is a great father and husband in most ways by the way - I recognise this message makes me sound a bit downtrodden, which I'm not, but I do feel really, really ANGRY and resentful right now and am wondering whether I should! I'm sure this has been covered before but I'm interested to know: if you have a high pressure job, or your partner does, and you both work, how do you share kid stuff during the week?

Do you have any paid help in the house?

TBH, nagging your DH to share if he doesn't want to is pretty pointless and frustrating. Buy in some help with his cash.

The division of labour in your house is unfair and quite rightly you want to redress the balance ever so slightly. The problem is you did not do it from day dot and now you are trying to move the goal posts.

Sit down with your Dh and tell him you require more help, give him a list and see how he responds.

Hi bobo. This is an on-going situation and we do have help (which is aimed at preventing these disputes)! We are really fortunate in that respect. We have an au pair who is a massive help logistically but, for our kids, she doesn't ultimately replace the presence of a parent at the beginning and end of most days. And that parent is me, so my working hours are curtailed thus limiting my career prospects. I do accept this to a very large extent as my kids are ultimately more important. I just wish by DH would be a bit more willing to put some effort in. But ultimately - you are probably right, I should accept the situation as it is. Thanks for replying.

Perhaps you need to have a chat at a more relaxed time to rebalance expectations/roles etc.

No reason why you can't come up with a routine which works for everyone but prob not best to suggest it in the 'moment' as it were. I know I would get annoyed if I was working from home and planning a few phone calls etc in the morning and DH tried to get me to do some chores etc there and then.

I think you can keep nagging. Consider specific areas such as helping more when working from home, and be clear that you expect him to step up.

I work 4 days a week, and my DH is in a more senior role than me, but he still takes joint responsibility for getting DD up and dressed in the morning, and we both make sure her food for the childminder is prepared the day before.

Sometimes I gently 'prod' DH to get up and start getting ready himself in the morning so he has the time to help DD.

If he's got so much work he needs to start at 7:30, he should do some the evening before, or get up early and take a break to help you. The pinch point is usually only about 45 mins out of his entire day.

Both our jobs are high pressure and full time, though I'm not as well paid as DH.

He works shitty shifts. 80% of the time I work full time around DH shifts and the kids school and activity timings. The other 20% I am away and DH has to do everything. Sometimes he has days off in the week so gets lots of housework done then.

DH accepts that I am 'stuck' in my career due to enabling him to continue in his and is generally very grateful to me. (Not sure if that is the right word but he does appreciate it iyswim.) He also recognises that, well, HIS children = HIS job to care for them as much as mine.

I wouldn't accept your DH's attitude tbh. He would be 'strongly reeducated' by me.

OP, I think you need to sit down with your DH and explain that the current situation is unacceptable.

No one should be able to nor needs to absent themselves from familial responsibilities. A demanding job and high wage do not justify it.

Even if you were a SAHP your DH should still take an active part in domestic life. These are his children and his home after all!

My DH has a demanding job but he has always expected to do things. Indeed wants to do things (obvious exceptions in respect of things no one wants to do ).

We buy in help and we split the other tasks.

OP i could have written your post. our DD is now 13 so pretty much self sufficient. I earn significantly more than the average UK salary but by DH earns 3 times what i earn. So it was always me that did all the childcare and house stuff as well as working FT. Our issues were compounded by his international travel and some anti social hours.

It is unfair but if i lost my job we could live and pay the mortgage, if he lost his our house would be re-possessed and child thrown out of school for non payment of fees. So from a practical point of view I had to suck it up. My career is on the mummy track but i have a closer bond with DD than DH will ever have.

What I found I couldn't buy in was home work support and music practice supervision

Two parents, two full time jobs...one person doing most of the work at home.

That's all you need to know to know that this situation is not right. He may earn more but that is neither here nor there since he has had the benefit of your free work to enable this situation (that and a few centuries of female disempowerment...). If he's a parent he's a parent and he has as many responsibilities as you do at home and at the moment he's not fulfilling them.

It sounds like he doesn't do enough during the week, you mentioned an au pair what about hiring a cleaner as well?

About him working from home- he is working from home, he doesn't have the day off and he isn't at home to help out more unless that is exactly what he asked for.
At the company I work for a lot of people don't work from home anymore because partners expect them to stop working which means it's more practical for them to come in to the office to work.

He should definitely be doing more.

Ask if he believes in the principle that men & women should have the same opportunities. If they should (obviously they should), then men have to step up and do more childcare / household work. Even in a dual career / unequal pay situation, he should be showing his children that men can do domestic things too.

It might help if you draw up a list of all the household chores that need doing, then mark which you do, which he does & which are up for negotiation / sharing. That helps him see how much you do and helps you negotiate without just nagging each time there is a crisis.

On work-at-home days, he saves the commute time and can use that to help with the children.

Lasvegas - This is it. If DH lost his job (and he often says he is about to) we would not be able to pay the mortgage. But I do think this is a fairly effective way to shut down any requests for even a small bit of additional help, as he presents this as though he would inevitably lose his job as a result. Hard to see how putting the occasional load of washing on would have that effect but whatever. I definitely do not expect my DH to do chores when he is working from home (although I have to do these chores when I am in order that they don't become overwhelming - we don't ask our au pair to do much else other than keep the kids happy and safe, which I think is enough). God, I don't know. We do have help (cleaner AND au pair) and so I know I really shouldn't complain. I guess I just feel resentful as I am hanging out his pants, cooking his dinner, etc, etc, because although I also work full-time, he does not do the same for me. I DREAM of a day that I get home for work and the kids are bathed, supper's on and there's a nice glass of wine waiting for me!!! I guess though that he'd say that his salary does subsidise a nice lifestyle and on that he'd be right. And that he dreams of being home early enough to get the kids bathed, etc etc!

How infuriating. I've had several blow ups with DH on similar grounds although he is not as annoying as this.

One thing that I think is really important is to rename the problem - the problem is not that you need HELP but that the children need care in a way that is equitable and allows both careers to flourish. because if you call it helping you, then you're starting off from the premise that it is fundamentally your problem - you need him to accept it is both of your problems.

Oh OP, I can totally relate to this. I've only been back at work from maternity leave for two months and I feel run ragged. DP is good and does help, but I always feel that the lion's share of the childcare and home related issues fall on my shoulders. This morning he left at 7.30 to go to work and was pleased with himself as he did the recycling. By the time I had got myself and DD washed, fed (bottle then breakfast), ready and to nursery/work, it was 10.15 and I felt like I needed a whisky! This is on top of dashing home last night to relieve childcare then logging back on at 8pm to 10pm. When he does the nursery drop off, I have to organise all of the kit (outfit, spare clothes, bottles, food) as I am fairly sure he would forget something. I wish I had answers....I do try to delegate discrete tasks with appropriate instructions, but it always feels as though his life has just not changed in the same way as mine has. He has had a course at work for the last few days which meant that he had to leave before DD woke up two mornings running and got home after she had gone to bed. For me, it would be unthinkable not to see her for two days. I know he loves her more than anything in the world, but our approaches are very different. I suppose none of this is very helpful, but sometimes it is good to know there are others in the same (busy) boat!

Ask him how putting a load of washing on would affect his job - seriously. If he is watching TV whilst you are running around after the DC ask him how helping out rather than watching TV would impact on his job.

Sometimes, it can be a genuine reason e.g. if I've brought a pile of work home then I can't help out as much as I would like but if I haven't...

I am the higher earner by quite a long way but I don't expect DH to do it all.

Why is losing his job the only conversation here? What about if you lose your mind? Or can't take it any more and leave him?

I'm exaggerating for effect but so is he. He doesn't have one sole responsibility in life and that is to remain in employment. He has lots of responsibilities and being a member of the household with chores to get through is one of them.

I wouldn't put up with this shit but then I'm a single parent who works full time to pay all the bills and who does all the chores -every last one of them so this bleating from fully grown men who have to go out to work and oh it's so hard....well. There isn't a face expressive enough to illustrate my feelings on that one.

Love that post preminstrel. You must think that my bleating is pretty pathetic too. But that is EXACTLY what I mean. I feel as though he believes that he has one thing to do: earn money. Once that is achieved, he's pretty much done*. To some extent I would put up with that except for the fact that I EARN MONEY TOO. Money that has a significant impact on our standard of living. And money that means that one day he might not even have to stay in his shitty job and could have freedom to do something else, if only I can get more time! But earning money is sooooo far from being the only thing I do! Phew, feeling better just getting this off my chest.

(*To be fair, he's not totally useless, he does do bills etc and some stuff at weekends. Especially bloke cooking, eg something posh with loads of pans).

Sorry it all sounds a bit first world problems to me. You are both employed in high paying jobs, you have an au pair. You chose to have kids. Get on with it. Sorry but there are people really struggling in life.

Well if he is constantly on the precipice of losing his job then surely it is even more important that you sustain and grow your job? And that can only really happen if he properly steps up to his responsibilities.

Hard to say without knowing exaclty what he does but I'd be suggesting that at a minumum, 1 night per week he comes home, does bath/dinner/bed etc and you are able to work later. There are few jobs where that would be a problem and indeed I tend to find men who say that "tonight is child duty night" practically get a round of applause as they leave the building.

Or give him a rota spreadsheet. Will at least give you a break from nagging him all the time. Or get the au pair to have a word with him.

Comfortzone Wed 14-Oct-15 14:15:53
Sorry it all sounds a bit first world problems to me. You are both employed in high paying jobs, you have an au pair. You chose to have kids. Get on with it. Sorry but there are people really struggling in life.

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And it is exactly this kind of crappy attitude that keeps women in the "mummy track" - you should be grateful that you've got a job and kids so suck all the shit up even if you're doing 99% of domestic stuff.

Agree with that theclacksaredown.

The few times I have managed to work 'late' at the office since I had the kids eg until say 7pm, I've managed to clear so many of the shitty admin jobs that hold up the other more interesting/career progressing part of my job. He'd also be setting a great example to his team as a senior person if he did come home at a reasonable time once a week. But .... I've tried asking for that so very many times and it has just led to huge disputes and so I've given up.

Comfortzone - no need to apologise, it is a first world problem, no doubt about it. I am extraordinarily lucky and privileged and would never pretend anything to the contrary.

But that doesn't stop me getting really pissed off now and again and wanting to share!

Seriously though, maybe he needs to see a written timetable of the children's day, their needs before and after school, how to get them ready etc He probably doesn't even realise that he needs to be doing these things and is covering it up quite well that he doesn't know to think about doing them but he does need to step up as their father and as your supportive spouse. It should be equal and I think it is almost there - it just needs tweaking a little bit but not in the heat of the moment conversation. He sounds very preoccupied with work too.

No *clack - she has an au pair and a cleaner - technically OP you can play it how you want - work late if you want, don't do any domestic chores if you want and leave it for your cleaner or au pair to sort out. Or buy more help. You have a choice. Others don't. Possibly he thinks that the au pair will sort it out or the cleaner will. So maybe both of you need to leave more to the au pair and the cleaner? Trying to offer constructive advice

Actually, I think women being expected to do the bulk of the household duties despite working the same hours as the men is anything but a first world problem. Its pretty fundemental in the lives of many women and the attitudes they have to put up with.