AIBU to feel that Howe's great 1981 budget does not excuse his traitorous behaviour in the end

[longfingernails]

Yes, the 364 idiots were proved conclusively wrong, but events have shown the Howes, Heseltines and Clarkes to be comprehensively wrong, and Maggie completely justified in saying No, No, No.

I hope he rests in peace, but will never be able to forgive him for prompting the departure of the 20th century's greatest peacetime PM.

OP I hope you have your fireproof undies on!

I still feel Maggie would have handed over to John Major. But seeing her treated so shabbily by the Europhile wets still rankles. She towered above them all.

I agree with some parts of your statements, such as she towered over him and her being the greatest, but I rather think she towered over a lot of people, then squatted down and shat on them from the greatest of heights, miners etc.

Agree with you, Longfingernails; just wait till Heseltine goes.

Personally I think his greatest achievement was his part in getting rid of Thatcher.

I think he was basically a good person which is more than I can say for her.

His greatest achievement was defeating inflation. His lowest moment was his part in deposing Thatcher, the woman who made Britain feel like Great Britain once more.

Apparently he tried to persuade Thatcher to implement the 'managed decline' of Merseyside. Thank God for Michael Heseltine!

Thatcher was loathsome.

Anyone who took part in her downfall is worthy of great praise.

He did indeed Pirate, utterly loathsome.

That government ruined this country. Their reforms destroyed countless lives. I will never be persuaded that Conservatives (voters and politicians) have a shred of humanity.

Really YokoUhOh?

You think that eleven million of the people around you have not got a shred of humanity, as opposed to disagreeing with you politically?

You must feel beleaguered. You never know when you are talking to one of them, do you?

I have strong opinions about some of the people I deal with but they are not usually based on their actual or guessed-at politics.

As for Geoffrey Howe, I am just a bit bemused that both ends of Healey's famous insult should have died so close together,

Basically, yes. I am thoroughly beleaguered, jaded and fed up with living amongst a bunch of people who think that austerity is good for the UK (yes, I have thought about leaving). Luckily, I work in a profession without a great deal of them.

Howe's plans to 'decommission' Merseyside were despicable, thank god Heseltine stepped in.

The greatest pm of the 20th Century was not Thatcher, you are deluded. But you often post threads that you know to be contentious, don't you.

Oh, and as for that particular budget, shit doesn't even begin to describe it.

Yoko You don't know how anyone you encounter votes. You may think you do, but you can't be sure. Good thing too.

Howe's greatest achievement was the end of exchange control in 1979. It had been a war measure and remained necessary for some time after the war, but by 1979 it was a drug of dependence. It's interesting that in 1983 it was Labour policy to bring it back (although they promised not to restrict holiday spending again) - but in 1987 they nodded through a short Finance Bill which only included uncontroversial measures - such as the final repeal of the Exchange Control Act!

"20th century's greatest peacetime PM."

Ahem, Attlee, not Thatcher thanks, stop the hyperbole theres a good sport.

Even though I wasn't a fan of Mrs Thatcher, you can see Howe's point at the time, she regularly undermined her ministers and had been becoming increasingly erratic in her behaviour over time.

I think, even Tory voters need to apply context here, at the time even the party felt the need for change. Remeber the poll tax riots, she was desperately unpopular even with her party and wouldn't have won an election.

I think its a bit late to get wound up about this. Or early. Give it another ten years.

mrstweefromtweesville Geoffrey Howe did today. When any senior politician dies it is natural to reflect upon their successes and failures.

He seemed a decent patrician-style one nation Tory.
Plus he got rid of that dreadful old hag.

Another one here who thinks that Attlee was the best 20th Century PM (Churchill was certainly was the right man at the right time, but wanted a war against the USSR pretty much straight after WW2).

Is that you, Margaret?
it's me, God.

Churchill was a dreadful peace-time Minister, although he was better in the Fifities than previously. As a war-time PM he ends up ahead of Lloyd George but not far ahead.

Who knew before Healey died that his middle name was Winston because his father thought Churchill had been unfairly blamed for Gallipoli?

Best peace-time PM of the century? Attlee or Macmillan; both have a good claim.