To wonder why people struggle to live in London.

[m1nniedriver]

Just honestly wondering what it is about London that makes people on, as I see it, huge salaries want to live in tiny flats just because it's london? The cost of living there seems riduculous. Some of the posts on here about the cost of housing just beggars belief! A tiny 1 bedroom flat for 300k?? If that's what you want then power to you but I do see posts with people say they are struggling and stressing every day to get by. Why would you not move to another part of the country that would enable a much better quality of life?

I'm not great at putting things across on posts so I hope this doesn't offend anyone its is meant as a genuine question, not having a go.

I think it's pretty silly to say you're not a 'londoner' just because you didn't go to school there or spend your childhood there. Anywhere you are comfortable and happy and have friends becomes your home and the place you are from if that's how you feel.
'Ive been a 'Brightonion' for 10 year- 20 years were spent in another coastal town about an hour away and then at University in the North. I still think I'm from there- I know the city like the back of my hand, all my friends live here, my family are no longer in original town but scattered around, my children were born here, their friends live here. If anyone asks I say I'm from here. Same applies to London surely.

I also say I am 'from' the place I am from , but I see Mn-ers giving advice about that place now that is all nee to me. I wouldn't be able to help anyone who wanted advice about areas to live, schools, roads, transport , shops, restaurants, days
Out, it has all changed .

Likewise I get sick of seeing the area I live in in London dissed by people who lived here 15 years ago. I mean dis it by all means, but not on the basis of info that is wildly out of date and therefore irrelevant.

What londonista said. Though I am also guilty of sometimes gloating over my postcode.

You're from where you're from. I was born in Wales, I could move to Australia tomorrow, don't make me an Aussie though does it?

Not if you moved there tomorrow, but once you had an Australian passport, yes.

Also, plenty of people have relatives from one or more places, were born in another, and then grew up in a variety if places. Where would they be 'from' according to these strict rules?

Also it depends on context. If I meet you on holiday and ask where you are from, I am probably asking where you live now, not where you were born or where you went to school.

The prevailing vibe on this thread about leaving London so you can have loads more disposable income, unless you have one of the very London-centric well paying jobs really concerns me.

I'm a teacher, so really could go anywhere else if I wanted. But is that what we want? All the ordinary teachers, firefighters, administrators, social workers to just leave? What happens to London then? Is it left as a weird empty playground for the super-rich?

I stay because I love it (I'm not claiming to be some kind of Mother Theresa figure or anything), but London also needs me. I educate the kids here. The answer cannot be - surely - that I should just fuck off to Leeds, and so should all my colleagues.

Belfry, I think it's a huge concern and affordability has got so much worse in the last decade.

There's an article in the Guardian today in exactly this, based on research from London First and CEBR. Their conclusions seems to be that much more house building - and affordable house building - is needed.

I think more housing is needed but also more jobs elsewhere. As much as many people choose to live in London, many people live on the outskirts, have long commutes and would be happy living outside the South East if the choice were available.

We would all benefit if people had more flexibility to move from or move to London.

I don't agree. It's the technical definition not the idea of somewhere being 'home'.

My parents moved to London in the 1970's but never refer to themselves as 'Londoners' even though my Dad still lives in Peckham. I also lives in Ghana for half of the year- he doesn't call himself Ghanian!

It's Ludicrous to say I can't have an informed opinion on a place I'm from and lived most of my adult life, have worked in five days a week up until 7 years ago. I regularly visit immediate family up to the present day and besides, only live in Brighton, it's not that far from the 'international city' of London. Incidentally, that view is why it's lost it's dynamism- its not where normal families grow up now it's just a place for the rich - sterile and safe!

I live in scotland now but when people ask me where I am from, I say London.

My family are from London - in service in Mayfair 100 years ago, bombed out in ww2, since then they have been local Councillors and general worthies.

London has changed.

I think people do have the flexibility to move here. Plenty of people do, people need to be more flexible in their expectations though. The "I simply must live in a period terrace with a garden in a zone 1" crowd have got to get a grip. The folk who state horror at hour long commutes, and many other things need to really research London life. As I said before people male compromises to.live here.

I'll give you an example, nice young couple we know are moving from this area to Enfield in order to buy, now up there they have got a 3 bed, two. Bath, large living room and park like shared gardens. It's 45 min to where they work centrally, but you got to time your connections. Now people would react in horror at living so far out (its not that far really) but they made a compromise.

You can certainly call yourself a Londoner (anyone can really), but you are wrong to say that normal families no longer grow up in London. It has about twice the population of Wales or Scotland and obviously they are not all rich.

Technically many people leave the place of their birth when they are babies, never mind adults, so while you might identify them as being 'from' that place, it doesn't have much to do with anything.

But Goldenbear not everyone works to that definition of what they are. I refer to myself as a Londoner as it's been my home for the past 16 years and possibly for the rest of my life.

I come from a country that has a lot of inward immigration and would never dare suggest that people who have moved there from all over the world shouldn't be able to define themselves as proper Canadians because they weren't born there. If they feel they are Canadian, then they are. They get to define their Canadian identify, not me.

You can call yourself a Londoner, but not a Cockney..that bow bells rule really thwarts some people.

Oh and the couple above.. I asked her what they're paying .. around 300k. Not bad really.

Lots of ordinary families in London. What an odd statement. If there weren't, we wouldn't have a state school place crisis....

You seem to have a really skewed view of what living in London is like. Might be worth looking at some demographics of who lives in the city these days?

I don't agree. It's the technical definition not the idea of somewhere being 'home'.

Okie doke then. You think your way, we'll think ours (along with a fair few other folk, it seems).

As for the 'international city/global city' bit, I'd argue that London's been one for at least the last century or so in one way or another. But definitely since the term was popularised in the early 90s. It's not a terribly new concept.

It's not impossible to move to London, but it is far harder to buy property in London than it was 20 years ago because of the size of the deposit required. This does reduce flexibility for people who don't have help from parents.

Nothing wrong with living on the outskirts of London - that is where most people live. However there is a point where it takes you as long to get to the centre as if you lived in another city, you spend most of your time leisure time locally, and the only reason you are living there is for work.

Wow op some people choose to live their lives in a different way to you, make different choices and prioritise different things. What's strange or AIBU-worthy about that?

I wouldn't want to live in London, but plenty of people want to. [shrugs]

The folk who state horror at hour long commutes

I live in London and have a horror of an hour long commute! It's one of the reasons we chose to live where we do (for now), despite some obvious downsides.

So you made a compromise Binky, others would make a compromise for an hour long commute but living somewhere they see fewer downsides.

When we moved here, obviously the downside was the fact that although the night life was bustling, there was a seedy underbelly to the area, but the houses were big, the connections were good and we had friends in the are (which was important with young DC and family far away). So we compromised and paid what was a huge amount, and were fairly skint for a little while (isn't everyone with young DC and houses?).

I'd agree with a poster above who said sometimes we who live here, see our areas a bit differently to others. My cousin who lives up near Birmingham in little village, is often scathing regarding my area, dodgy, dirty,dark etc. But I see it very differently.

45 minute's commute if you time everything perfectly and there are no delays and you never change jobs - so that you can live in a suburb that is perfectly nice but with no more museums than Kettering is not really living the London dream for many people.

I think that is more about having a job than living in London.

Not being anti-London or anti- suburb - it's just that living there is not all black cabs and theatres.

I think those who started this whole you aren't a real Londoner are just looking for a reaction. Which is fine, what else is there to do on a Monday morning?

I would say though I don't feel worthy of the title 'londoner' I've only been here 7yrs and I still have a funny accent, but where I was born certainly isn't home. I hate it and will never return. Home is where the heart is.

So you made a compromise Binky, others would make a compromise for an hour long commute but living somewhere they see fewer downsides

I completely agree. Just making the point that people decide to live in London for a variety of reasons - and that ours was actively to avoid a commute rather than needing to accept it as part of living here.

I think for a lot of people the job is the most important, the London thing is nice, but even where we live its not museums and West End every week, I think Oxford St is the 7th circle of hell. Also admittedly central London is no where near as vibrant as it was when I first arrived here in the 1970s, its so much more commercial, less independent, more sterile.

But outer areas of London are flourishing with independent bars, shops, interesting things going on.

Enfield isn't too far out, and is likely to be on CR2, and the trains going out there are now TFL Overground so will be more regular in future ( or at least this is the speel we have been given) but I agree that you could live in commuting distance from out of town. However, commuter belt also has a premium on property too.

As for "living the London dream" from this thread and others most people's London dream is exactly that, a dream, so many people dismiss living outside zones 1-2 in anything other than a period house with a garden.

You can get up close and personal to art exhibits in London.

This family makes it a regular habit and with world-class pieces you wouldn't find in Devon.

Even better, all the places they mention are free. So if your children want to interact and you don't have oodles of cash, what are you waiting for?