To wonder why people struggle to live in London.

[m1nniedriver]

Just honestly wondering what it is about London that makes people on, as I see it, huge salaries want to live in tiny flats just because it's london? The cost of living there seems riduculous. Some of the posts on here about the cost of housing just beggars belief! A tiny 1 bedroom flat for 300k?? If that's what you want then power to you but I do see posts with people say they are struggling and stressing every day to get by. Why would you not move to another part of the country that would enable a much better quality of life?

I'm not great at putting things across on posts so I hope this doesn't offend anyone its is meant as a genuine question, not having a go.

I don't think it's accurate to say that London is more liberal and open minded compared to other cities in the UK, there is certainly more diversity, but that's not the same as being more liberal.

Again wash, I'm not broke, I can, most people I know aren't "broke" even on a fairly average salary most people can afford nights out, meals out ( did you know takeout is cheaper here than in the provinces? Competiton you see) Sadly most people I know who are still in Hartlepool are, you know deindustrialisation really hit the place hard, it's kind of why if you got an education you got out.

Whatever, you can tell me your museums are better, that's fine. I don't believe you, and thousands wouldn't, and don't every year.

Oh and last time I went to the B.L (for the Magna Carta exhibit last day) we got in, we saw everything, it was fine, but busy, you get used to dealing with busy if you go places people actually want to be.

Sorry, hackles are up now, probably being mean.

Does anyone also realise that OK in London rents are high but wages are higher too? I've looked into moving elsewhere and I'd get paid half of what I do now for the same job. I'd also pay half the amount of rent but I wouldn't be any better off.

I grew up in a white working class area of London and moved away 11 years ago. London has changed beyond recognition in the last decade.

Sure in the naice circles in London everyone is very liberal - but I would suggest that is true of most large cities in the UK.

But not everyone is 'naice' ...

*Soooo do tell when your average working family with kids do London the right way.

Pretty sure they'll be tied to school holidays and the weekends like the rest of us having you know jobs,the school run,food shopping,kid's extracurricular activities etc to cope with or does living in London take all that away?*

Yep. Life isn't perfect in London. Its just a bit...better

This thread has taken a funny turn, really.

People who live in London answering the OP's question. Fine. Then people who dont live in London with their guns blazing, really taking offence at the fact that some people like living in London.

Bizarre

Ubik I grew up in East London and my experience is that it's only got nicer in the last 10 years. Really depends what you mean by changed beyond all recognition.

Not bizzarre, jealous.

Now discuss, mwhahahahaha....

Ubik you know I was just giving an example of one of the many hundreds of smaller museums that london has that people could visit if they don't like the big touristy ones. I know that most uk cities have some good museums. But do they have hundreds? Is there the same choice?

But you know, I'm getting tired of defending london to a load of people who obviously hate it. Which is why they don't live here. So I am not sure what the problem is to be honest. don't like it? Don't come here. Simple. No need to rant about how shit it is on mumsnet really.

And can one not love the beach and countryside but yet also love London? I do.

Why does this kind of thread always turn into a bunfight, it's so wearing.

People do seem uneccessarily cross that some people like living in London.

People have only said the reasons they like living in London in response to polite questions (like the OP's) or accusations that people shouldn't like living there.

It's not like anyone started a thread called 'everywhere but London is shit'.

But you were talking about museums ouside of London being better and not being able to see things when you came here. Can't change the argument as it pleases you.

I'd rather have a stroll in Regents Park, down by the canal and up to Little Venice for lunch and wine than go to Dartmoor or a beach in October, but each to their own eh.

If you want to avoid the crowds in the London museums, go early and be there when it opens. The crowds don't usually arrive until midday. If you're coming from outside London, come on a Saturday (or when London school kids are not on holiday) and get an early train. DD2 and her mate and I had a lovely morning in the Science Museum recently, by being there when it opened. Didn't have to queue for anything (eg the flight simulators), just walked on. We went off to have an early lunch, when we came back the queues were horrendous.

Anyone who would be a 'miyinaaaaire'. Outside London, is not struggling to live there though?

Earning 100K plus isn't entirely unheard of North of London either if you're not muwyinayar (in my best Rab C Nesbit accent) in London I doubt you would be out of it.

It's all relative I think. The pay is less where I am but the cost of living is a lot less too so probably on par really to someone earning a huge wage in London. Granted, there are less museums and the public transport is shit (although I never use it as I have a drive to park my very expensive yuppy car in )

I'm not cross. Or very bothered at all.

I just find London very hard work. and I hate that Wallis talkie and that stupid bloody cable car which I can see inching across the Thames, empty, every time I'm queuing to use the bloody Blackwall Tunnel.

But I do love the DLR, the clean buses, the Boris bikes, the river taxis.

I do not understand this. I love living in London for a myriad of different reasons but also love getting away to Devon or the Lake district (or any countryside/ seaside)

These threads always seem to attract 1) people who live in London who sneer at anyone who doesn't because they think everywhere else is dull or uncultured and (2) people who live outside London who think they're entitled to be all smug about their living costs and how stupid Londoners are to live in a polluted busy hellhole.

Frankly both are as bad as each other.

Soooo do tell when your average working family with kids do London the right way.

Well, you're not tied to The Time You're Visiting in the same way as a tourist, and there are plenty of out-of-season weekends when things are reasonably quiet.

I work, so we mainly do things at the weekends. Occasionally I'll take a weekday off, but it's rare.

But there are ways to do even the big ones if you can be a bit flexible. For example, DS loves the Natural History Museum - as do I, but I do not love the queue for the dinosaurs. So I keep an eye on the Twitter feed and opportunistically nip up there when they say the queues to get in are pretty short/non-existent. We managed this on a weekday in the summer school holidays, near DS's birthday. No queue to get in, 10 minutes for the dinosaurs, and the rest of the museum wasn't crowded. Hard to do when you're time-limited on holiday, I know. Weekends out of season tend to be pretty manageable - very few queues.

I can see the challenges for those not living here - if you want more than a day, it's going to be school holidays or similarly busy times. But I wouldn't take those to be representative of what even the major London museums are like most of the time. Because frankly that's when we get not just the British tourists but all the European ones and the scourge of my London existence, French and Spanish school groups.

Pretty sure they'll be tied to school holidays and the weekends like the rest of us having you know jobs,the school run,food shopping,kid's extracurricular activities etc to cope with or does living in London take all that away?

Ouch, what biting sarcasm! You'll note in my post I didn't mention weekends - because they're all I have available to me (and frankly what most people in London have available to them). Living here affords me the opportunity to just nip in to a museum, or a gallery, or whatever for an hour or two when things are quieter, rather than feeling we have to do it all in one go. I know people who just drop in to see something with the kids after school - not something I have the luxury to do, unfortunately, but it's nice that it's possible for others.

This year, as I'm on mat leave, I'm going to splash out on an annual ticket to the HRPs so I can take DS to those at our leisure.

We probably do as much countryside stuff (Box Hill, Polesden Lacey grounds, Bushy Park, general poking-at-things-with-sticks as much as we do the urban stuff. It's a fairly nice balance.

Apart from the Tower of London, what have you been spending your oodles of cash on?

I think it turns into a bunfight because there IS jealousy about living in London, it is vibrant one of two Alpaha ++ cities in the world and has lots to offer.

People like to hold their noses and say: "Couldn't possibly" and hype their own areas but secretly know that they'd like it. But they can't possibly admit at , oh no.

Its no big deal, fuck me there are times on a Monday morning when I think why don't I live anywhere else than here. Times when you go outside of London and enjoy the quiet, the slower pace of life, the fact that a pint and a glass of wine doesn't cost you over £10.

But you're not allowed to say you like London and wouldn't choose to live anywhere else, cause it has to be awful, to make people feel better that they're not missing out ( and you are btw)

Feel like I need a drink after this thread! Thank god I live in London hey?

For the record I don't think London is shit at all, that's not why I started the thread. In fact ive been on holiday a few times, I loved it but just for a holiday. Personal preference really. I can totally see the appeal but did wonder why people would stay and struggle to get by just ba use its London.

I've been looking for the specific thread that got me thinking about it but can't find it. I've seen a few but basically the poster was fed up, skint (with a decent salary) hated her tiny flat and spent all her money on Chikdcare and rent. Someone suggested she look into moving to a city where things were cheaper (it was a transferable job) and the thread deteriorated into something like this one

Not me Jassy; I live in south London and love the Horniman too (once l got over my then at it's name)

But seriously, some people love the city, others the country. And if you love the city life then nowhere compares to London. And i say that as someone who isn't British and have lived in different cities around the world.