To ask about London and money

[Maisy313]

How much do you think you need to earn as a working couple to support a family of four (one year old and reception aged child) in London and have a reasonable standard of living? Would just be really interested in your thoughts... Someone told me it was impossibly to survive on less than a joint income of 100k in London which seems exceptionally high to me...

OP said 75K I think, which makes it more viable, that's why I thought your number was a bit low Chocolate.

You need to go further out towards surrey and also speak to the hospital to see if shifts can be arranged so they can cut back on childcare.

Here in NYC they have allowed parents of young kids to set their schedule so they can cut down on childcare costs. I think it's a great idea. My colleague and her DH only pay for one day of childcare this way. He does 12hr shifts overnight on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

look up www.commutefrom.com/ to work out travel times / house prices in different parts of London

stay in bristol!

Oh thanks Anyone. I guess with £75k both could still be lower rate taxpayers, getting child benefit. I would estimate that at about £4500 per month. So perhaps £2.5k available for housing/childcare or poss a little bit more.
Yes, is looking more doable, if accomm can be found which results in a mortgage of no more than £1.5k. As someone said earlier,if they are prepared to go interest only for the period of childcare, it could be doable. If they want to be paying off capital too, I calculate that a £1.5k mortgage payment might be on a 25 year mortgage of about £250-£275k. Does that sound rightish? With £100k deposit, they could get somewhere for about £375k - there are certainly things available for that.....probably not big family houses in leafy areas, but certainly flats and certainly houses around the M25 if ex-council/not so close to station/not top notch areas can be considered.

I feel more hopeful that it could be a goer!

We're in zone 4 (NW London) on just under 100k and manage to live a comfortable lifestyle. I do miss zone 1 a lot though!

It's the housing costs that make the total cost of living in London so high now.

There are lots of couples/families living perfectly well here on much less than 100K, but they bought before the property ladder zoomed.

Even 10 years ago, it was perfectly possible to get a 2-bed flat or house in some areas of zone 2 for just over 200K.

They're about 3 times that now.

And the people we need to hear from, as the best examples, are those who have recently bought houses in London, whilst having 2 kids with at least 1 in childcare and a deposit in the area of £100k.....that would be more useful than the majority who seemed to buy their houses many years ago.....despite having similar or lower incomes to the OP, the situation is SO different, because the mortgage payments are so different, and also because many of those posting aren't faced with £1kplus childcare bills.

Logically, it must be possible.

Most people don't earn anywhere near 100K. But 10 million people live in London.

Therefore, they must be able to make it work.

Cross post with Christina.

Good luck with the decision making. I'm thinking it could be possible in purely financial terms. Whether it's worth it,compared to what they have now, in terms of size of house,commute times, holidays etc.....it's a very personal choice.

God, no way would I recommend them leaving fabulous Bristol to move here, not on that income and deposit. They'd probably have to buy somewhere far out and/or in a crap area. Not worth two long commute's every day or always feeling compromised where you live because of not feeling safe or there being nothing to do locally. Living in London is overrated unless you have a significant disposable income and live in a decent area.

I know Charing X hospital. It is in an eyewateringly expensive area of London. Whether you sis will be able to afford it depends on what she calls an acceptable standard of living. What that will mean in practice is how far she's willing to live from a tube station, how small a flat she can cope with, and whether she wants a garden or not. So, if she's not bothered by having a garden (few people in London I know have a garden) and she cycles everywhere, then she will find it easier than someone who pines after a big garden and wants to live 2 tube stops from work.

I earn well under £20k, and am a single parent with one child, but the only reason I can live well in London is that my mortgage is quite small. Renting at the prices around here would kill me.

Oh, and I would kill for a garden, but will never, ever get one. I don't even have a balcony.

Ft childcare is approx £70 day for most of my friends in London, bog standard nurseries

I grew up near Wimbledon, then moved to near Waterloo. With children, it's better to live much further out and commute in. Choose somewhere with a good train service to Waterloo, some areas it's every 10 minutes and fast trains can take as little as 15 mins.

Before I got married, had a child, living on a Tube line was paramount; that changes quickly when you have a child, and you move to somewhere where you can have a garden, and see some green. It's worth the extra time travelling.

Live just outside London, commute in.

Isleworth isn't bad at all. It used to be that Molesey was considered an awful place, but I doubt it is now, for instance. You can bet that even if they move to an area which isn't great now, it will be pretty soon.

I'm shocked at some of the figures being quoted here. I'm a single parent living in south east London (zone 4) and I live off £27k. That's £23k in wages and about £4K in tax credits. I am perfectly comfortable, we have nice holidays, DD does plenty of activities and I don't feel poor at all. Almost all of my friends and family earn a similar or lower wage and we all get by perfectly well. My DSis and her DH live down the road from me, they have a mortgage on a lovely 2 bed house with garden, their combined income is about £60K and they seem rich to the rest of us! Lots of exotic holidays, plenty of savings etc.

It really does depend which part of London you live in I guess.

It's the housing costs that kill you. We just paid off our mortgage, when it was huge we threw 60-70% of our net income on it, now we have lots of disposable income. 100k is still doable, but the home will be small, the holidays domestic and the childcare bill significant ie you can't live the life of Riley.

Does Hospital work mean shifts? If she will be working regular hours, she is going to have a better standard of life living outside and commuting in.
It means relying on the train to Richmond and then district line but it is easily do-able.
A town like Egham or Staines would be a commute of well under an hour and £400k would buy a house with a garden. That in London gets a small flat...

If they are working shift hours, then that might be more of a problem. Areas like Hampton, Kingston, Surbiton would be better value but it doesn't feel like London

Thank you so much everyone, I really appreciate all your advice and input. Chocolatewbat I think you are right, it probably is doable but what they have to consider is the drop in living standards... It's tough as the position she has been offered is in a very particular line of medicine and come up very infrequently, her dh is very supportive but she wants to make the right decision for them as a family. If only house prices could sync up a bit more to the average wage... It's staggering to think that millionairs are having to make do with 3 bed semis with tiny gardens!

We were priced out - lived in Richmond borough. Tiny home. The people who bought our place were quite moneyed (merchant banker).

I'd say you need £100k really.

For those talking about outside the M25, you're then looking at £6k a year (and rising) on trains, plus the Oyster fair...to have an hour+ commute.

It really is miserable that people on technically good incomes are being pushed out of what is an amazing city.

If you live at the end of a line, you're more likely to get a seat in the mornings, and the train will have emptied quite a lot before you get to your stop so you'll get a seat then too. Not to be underestimated!

If I was relocated to London at this point I would be living in woking. It's not the cheapest place but it has good trains to Waterloo.

I would also be worried that in London you have less of a sense of community. I used to live just south of shepherds bush and there used to be a great community feel. That feel has changed so much in the past decade as all the Sloaneys moved in. People just don't help each other out like they used to. When you have kids I think it's important to have that. Also people are moving all the time in London. If you head further out you are normally joining a more stable population.

We live in a 3 bed terrace in zone 4. It's our third property in London (started with a flat in zone 2 then sold that and bought a maisonette edge of zone 1, then sold and bought this last year). Our income is nowhere near the figures other people have described! We were paying for 4 days' childcare up till June this year when dd got her 3yo funding. Now we pay minimal amounts for her childcare and nothing for ds (6yo) and life is comfortable ish
Our joint income is less than 50k but our mortgage is small as we put a lot of equity into the house.