To ask about London and money

[Maisy313]

How much do you think you need to earn as a working couple to support a family of four (one year old and reception aged child) in London and have a reasonable standard of living? Would just be really interested in your thoughts... Someone told me it was impossibly to survive on less than a joint income of 100k in London which seems exceptionally high to me...

I think it's work locations that are causing me trouble then. Clearly it can be done, as so many people have shown they are doing it (though I gently suspect that it is because they have bought at a better time) but Brockley to where I work would be awful.

Where do you work? Brockley's pretty accessible from most of London. 2 overground stops to the jubilee line, straight train to Victoria, overground takes you most places. Clapham junction, Waterloo, Euston, Kings cross,all within 15- 20 minutes.

Can't be much more of a commute than if you were in zone 1 already.

"That leaves £22k, to spend on food, clothes, repairs, holidays. You'd be comfortable, but not wealthy."

My god no. You'd be wealthy, wherever in the UK you lived, if you had £22k left after the big housing bills.

I have less than that for everything.

I haven't said Cactus because I don't want to get into conversation with someone like you who is so unpleasant to me! If you had asked nicely without calling me a twit then I would have obliged.

You know I think it's blinkered to live in an area you can afford. Telling the OP that yeah her sister can stretch to afford London with an income of £75k plus a deposit of £100k is misguided. While the children are young and can squeeze into a 2bed flat they are 4-5 years off those kids needing their own bedrooms. Also suggesting they do an interest only mortgage while they have childcare costs is also very risky. What we have found is that DD starting school this year has had higher costs and what we save in daycare is spent on other things.

Also living in zone 3-6 with a 45 minute commute isn't worth it IMO. Why not live further out and take the overland train in? The savings in childcare and activites would more than make up for the extra commute costs.

Finally if a man was working my hours no one would bat an eyelid. Just because I'm a mother why should I be giving up on my career? I spend time with my DC each morning and at the weekend. I work from home 1-2 days a week so while I'm not the one putting their dinner on the table in very much there. I'm on an 80% schedule so I have made a compromise. I also don't work weekends during busy season.

Brockly would be ages to commute for us and costly

Want2bsupermum... words fail me, they really do, I'd be questioning actually how fab your job is if your doing the hours you claim for the rate you state.

Also telling us that an income of £75k and a deposit of 100k is not enough is so laugable you can take your anecdotes somewhere else, really, I know literally hundreds of people who have bough recently on similar or lower budgets.

Posters need to stop scaring people about London, this fabulous city with all it has to offer. It is expensive, but try areas that are slightly less glam and you can get good deals ( Harlesden like a certain bespecked documantary maker for example).

Oh and I never said Kilburn was horrible, I've loved living here, I love how vibrant it is, I love the High Road, I love the little shops that sell everything you could possibly need, I love the Irish music in the Colin Cambell on a Sunday.

Booo to posters spouting trash, London is great, you just gotta work at it.

But no one is suggesting fucking Brockley for you Artandco!

The overland train from Brockley is 12 minutes to London Bridge, for example, 36 minutes to Blackfriars, 6 minutes to Forest Hill where you can to Canada Water in another 10 minutes. And all the connections there.

Well that's a pleasant greeting

Getting to London Bridge is no help if Dh needs to be in the Barbican area for 7am, and I need to be in maida vale tomorrow 9am and South Kensington until 11pm. Hence zone 1 is preferable, certain areas of zone 2 possible.

Overland is no good for many who need to travel early or late on tube, or be able to walk home or cheapish taxi once tubes stop.

Minty, no need to go to forest hill, you can go straight from brockley. The line is forest hill, honor oak, brockley, new cross, Surrey quays, Canada Water.

Brockley has so many transport links it's ridiculous. You can also get to St. John's and Crofton park stations which are different lines and can take you right out to Kent and the coast.

Where do you commute to art? I find it pretty easy to get anywhere in London.

I do think people moving here need time to adjust that an hours commute is fairly standard, and that over an hour is not uncommon.

Coming from the North East some friends were horrified that they couldn't live within 20 mins, yet I know many that live 40 mins drive even up there.

Barbican is easy. Orange line to Whitechapel, pink to Barbican. Half hour.

Maida Vale same, but stay on pink until Paddington, then last two stops on the bakerloo. 40-45 mins.

South ken also easy, district line straight from Whitechapel, or take the jubilee between Canada Water and Westminster do a quicker journey.

Trains start at 5am and run till past midnight.

From brockley, sorry.

Doable though, imo.

I commute to all different locations which is the problem. So Monday I need to go to maide vale, Tuesday kings cross, Wednesday Heathrow for a flight early, third virtually last tube home from Heathrow, Friday Notting hill and Knightsbridge. Hence virtually anywhere on an overground wouldn't work for us. The above schedule changes weekly and doesn't include dhs commute, and the fact we need to be close enough most days to children's school for drop off and pick ups

I am loving this thread as a very proud brockley resident :). Our flat is TINY, i wish I had a garden, but my mixed race son is safe here, he will goe to an outstanding school with all his friends come September and my dh and I have an easy commute by lndn standards. Maybe I have had too many glasses of wine, and I AM sad we cant afford another baby. But for the 3 of us, life is pretty good in our little pocket of london.

By overground do you mean national rail? Brockley overground (not national rail) is part of the east London line, so runs on the tube network. I get to all the places you mention easily enough. I don't find the commuting any different to living next to a jubilee tube stop.

Or do you include the east London line/dlr etc as overground?

Ldn mummy I love it here too :)

Which school? Is it the big white one? I loved all the primary schools I looked at, and the secondaries are great too.

Barbican, Maide vale, Kings Cross, Heathrow,Notting hill and Knightsbridge.

Actually all an easy commute from Zone 6 areas that are on the Met and Piccadilly line really.

People either don't really know London, or CHOOSE to complain about prices in Zone 1/2.

I agree that to use the term 'pauper salary' for anything less than £100k is ridiculous and shows a total lack of empathy for the 95%+ of the population who earn less than that.

£100k might not be enough for the housing and commute and childcare that some of you consider essential.....but the fact is, you have chosen the jobs which require you to work huge numbers if hours, which have the consequence of you feeling personally that you cannot commute or have anything less than very expensive childcare. The vast majority of people don't work those kind of hours, so can commute and use a nursery or childminder, which means living in London (even if further out) is possible. The numbers for the OPs sister have all been stacked up much earlier up the thread and with her £100k deposit, 1 in childcare it was concluded that they could afford a flat further into London or a house further out. It is possible still.

Posters using the term 'pauper income' should recognise that,firstly their lifestyles and work patterns are unusual and secondly that by implication they are calling 95%+ of the population paupers....which is offensive. Other people live very happy lives in flats in London, in zones 1-6 and outside the zone system,commuting further in. They also live in houses further out. They are happy with their communities (in zone 3 and elsewhere) and accept their commutes.....and indeed many count their blessings that their incomes are high enough for them to be able to afford to live anywhere commutable to London, because many many people cannot do so.

But WHY are we talking about you and your dh's commutes Art? You are happily settled in central London.

I do think people moving here need time to adjust that an hours commute is fairly standard, and that over an hour is not uncommon.

This is spot-on. Before I started working mostly from home (thank you, boss) I went from an hour commute to an hour and a half when I moved (ie three hours a day there and back). It was a bus, then a tube, then the North London Line overground train. I didn't think anything of it. I did get a lot of reading done!

There are lots of assumptions on here regarding outgoings. As an example, a dentist in my organisation pays almost £20,000 in professional fees each year. Yes, they are tax deductible but that's still £20k!! If he's in the minority in London I would be very suprised.

Then there's maintenance for other children, helping parents with medical/care fees, student debt and so on... Just because you can work out the mortgage payments, it doesn't mean you know even a small proportion of the whole picture.

It also doesn't mean that £100k is a paupers salary.

Another problem with London is people's idea of lifestyle is hugely skewed by the lifestyles of people around them. The mix of people is far higher and you're as likely to know people with £200k incomes as basic minimum wage, more so if you are in a profession and rent in an area like mine which is full of meeja types as well as city folk.