To think we should all be more pro active to try and save the NHS!

[m1nniedriver]

For all its failings we are so lucky in this country to have the NHS. It is literally being destroyed by these twats and I honestly don't see that much outrage from the general public. What I see is people telling horror stories and others agreeing with them. The divide and conquer plan seems to be working. The new contract for junior doctors is just another trick, and from what I've read it's working! All the focus on what j docs get paid, how many mistakes they make etc but not seeing the bigger picture. It is tragic!

I dont know how you havent seen 'outrage' about it because ive seen nothing but.

YANBU, it seems like there's so much lethargy about all the things we're in the process of losing, and the blame is being placed on individual hospitals, police forces, councils, etc, etc instead of on the government who have chosen to make huge cuts which will erode public services. Soon it will be too late (at which point people might actually start to take notice, but what can be done then?)
Tragic indeed but I'm not sure what to do about it.

I just think there should be more. We are so so lucky and the thought that we may end up with a system like America fills me with dread. It's really very sad.

Surely it should be right up there in everyone's prority list. We will all use it at some time in our lives. There's no doubt food banks, refugees, benifits being slashed, people being out of work etc are awful but these things seem to take the 'limelight' away from what's going on in the background with regards to healthcare.

Trouble is there's not a huge amount doctors can do to improve the situation. A lot of doctors wont strike, as it's not fair on thr doctors. Even if we do, people barely notice, as we still have to do the emergency work. And the cancer work. And the night shifts. So a few clinic appointments get cancelled - so what? That happens all the time anyway.

Staff cant leave to go elsewhere, because there is nowhere else to go. The only option is leaving the country - a lot of people are doing this, but for those that cant, whats the choice?

We're over a barrel and there's not much we can do about it.

The public is our only chance but years of the Daily Mail slating us means the public dont much like us anymore.

The NHS will die.

Oooh, I meant 'not fair on the patients', clearly. The doctors would love a day off on strike!

I think we should be up in arms to stop politicians tinkering with it but part of the problem is that the public (although obviously not all of them) are among those destroying it. The demands placed on the NHS are becoming more all the time and a lot of that is unreasonable expectations on the part of the public

I come across this at work and hear day after day about demands for more expensive brands of drugs purely based on preference (not allergy, intolerance, etc) or based on what Dr Google says, demands for things on prescription that could so easily be bought, expectations to get things from the NHS to use abroad (from those who don't live here full time) and a total lack of respect for treatment provided as the value is not appreciated

Ok, if you want us to be proactive, what do you want us to actually do?

I think the j doctors should strike and that the public should stand behind them, regardless of what the papers politicians say. I thought nurses should strike when they had the opportunity but the majority coukdnt (unions didn't back them). Thise that did the wards took in agency/bank staff instead so there was no impact. i don't think there would be public sympathy if J docs did strike unfortunately.

Meditrina I think if the public stood dude by side with staff we coukd make a difference. I doubt it will ever happen though.

What actions are required to 'stand with them'?

Genuine question. Does it, for example, mean going without treatment when ill, and not complain about any of the consequences?

Why does the NHS need saving? Potentially it could be the start of a better health system - the US version doesn't have to be the only alternative, there are many others.

Here I pay $45 to see a GP (subsidised - if I weren't enrolled in the practice it would be $65). Hospital care is free, as is care for the under 13s. Some people have private health insurance but they are the minority. The public system will take care of all essential healthcare but won't pay for "would be nice but not medically necessary" procedures. Waiting lists for surgery are 4 months from diagnosis to discharge.

Morale in the health workforce is good, which is good for patients. There's a "no blame" culture where medical injuries (because they do happen) are covered by a government body who fund income, restorative treatment if needed, ongoing care - at a fraction of the cost of the larger compensation claim payouts in other countries.

But it costs money. That said I pay less in tax here than I did in the UK so something elsewhere isn't being funded. If the uk wants to keep the NHS as originally envisioned then money is going to have to come from somewhere else in the budget or higher taxes.

It's all just empty rhetoric on both sides though. We are only "lucky" when compared to countries with no healthcare and I am pleased that the possibility of a social insurance system is at last being discussed sensibly. As long as healthcare remains free at point of use for the poorest then I don't give a shiny shit who provides it. It is possible that delivery by the private sector or by public private partnerships will be more efficient. There is plenty of egregiously poor care in the NHS and I hope people continue to talk about it (although your OP implies that you think they should not).

I also think there is a lot of self-serving scaremongering amongst those on the left, creating fears that people will be left without healthcare if there is no NHS. Do people honestly think that happens in France or Getmany? The U.S. System is not the only alternative.

As long as people insist on eating and drinking themselves silly, the NHS will remain broken.

Fat, alcohol, smoke, non-contribution in tax. RIP NHS. Dental treatment for all was taken away a long time ago.

I work in healthcare and I see 2 sides to this.

First of all, there is an outrageous waste of money occurring all across the NHS. Initiatives that could make a profound difference aren't enacted because it doesn't suit the local political climate, or someone let's their ego get in the way of progress. As an example, a project I'm involved in demonstrated that it could save one large trust millions ever year but it was cancelled because one of the heads of the trust wants his own team to do it. He wants to be seen as the saviour. They can't do it, or they wouldn't have needed help in the first place. And if they try, it will take longer, cost more money, and take very much longer to have an impact on patient care. This kind of nonsense is contributing to the financial situation that the NHS finds itself in.

Then there are the patients themselves who couldn't care less about looking after their own health, miss appointments, waste valuable resources demanding (and getting) prescriptions for paracetamol etc. When my dh's gran died we found 3 full black bin bags of medication in her house. Why the hell is that allowed to happen? How often is that repeated across the country?

We should absolutely try to save the NHS, but there are 2 sides to this story, and for every NHS worker who is doing great things, there's at least another 1 who is pissing about, treating it like their personal domain, going off on long term sick and coming back just long enough to get full pay so that they can go off again etc. It's sad, and frustrating and I don't know how we can reconcile the problems on both sides of the fence to not only protect, but improve what we have.

People should be doing more to save the NHS,
There are many ways, but many people are just not as bothered as they should be, and waste resources.
In example. People cluttering up A&E when they don't need to, people who call ambulances when they aren't in dire need and could get a taxi instead.
The people who go and get ALL of their children's painkillers, plasters and nit lotions for free from boots (I think this is paid for by the NHS?)

Also the ones who end up in A&E cos they're tanked up, and the ones who have self brought on damages. they should need to pay for their treatment. My husband has one friend who's really into downhill mountain biking, and 2-3 times per year he's in hospital being repatched up, and as much as I like him, and accidents happen I feel it's taking the piss a bit, and I feel he should have to start paying as he must cost the NHS loads... This isn't me being a cow about one person. I've got PCOS, and this has lead to me getting some pretty nasty skin tags, which get caught sometimes- I've arranged to have these removed privately because yes they are sore when they get caught but to an extent I feel the PCOS is down to me being overweight so it's a self caused symptom I should therefore foot the bill for.

I feel like people need to take some responsibility for themselves a lot of the time, it would make NHS waiting times much less, and I imagine it would considerably lower the NHS expenditure quite quickly.

The people who go and get ALL of their children's painkillers, plasters and nit lotions for free from boots (I think this is paid for by the NHS?)

Yes, some people might consider exercising a bit of self-control. Unbelievable.

Dental treatment for all was taken away a long time ago.

Eh? I go to the dentist 2x a year on the NHS, it costs peanuts.

I think so few people know how the NHS is structured and how it actually works, that all the discussion about how to "save" it is just noise. Same as the anti privatisation stuff, most people have no conception of what it actually means and what the alternatives (or lack of alternatives) are.

Bottle cap- exactly. I think that it's there for those who would genuinely not be able to buy the stuff when needed but I know of people who would begrudge buying it because they could get it free.
We've somehow managed without it, and we had a few rough years, I think it's down to making the decision to make it a priority.

Just stop voting Tory.

I think so few people know how the NHS is structured and how it actually works

Well, it's just like any bureaucracy - a fair few bureaucrats ensuring it's sufficiently arcane to ensure job security.

I think that it's there for those who would genuinely not be able to buy the stuff when needed but I know of people who would begrudge buying it because they could get it free.

Sure. And you can buy generic versions of a lot of this stuff at Poundland for well, a pound. Or less.

Sorry when you said pro active to save the NHS i was thinking of loads of people deciding to exercise.

There are many things we can do to save the NHS we really don't know what we have till we lose it. However there are things done within the NHS that seriouly need to be changed.

Makes me laugh when people say doctors and nurses are going to Australia to work where it's so much better. Yes and partly privatised!!

And with a predominantly paper-based, uncoordinated system of care!