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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be incensed by this

204 replies

TheStripyGruffalo · 05/10/2015 19:03

The government is right to press ahead with cuts to tax credits - despite claims millions will be worse off - because the UK must become as hard working as China, Jeremy Hunt has said. The health secretary said the cuts - combined with a higher minimum wage - would send out the right "cultural signal" to low paid workers. And he said he did not "buy" claims people would be left out of pocket.

(source BBC politics website)

I am furious about this, I work for the government and don't earn enough to pay income tax so will not be better off by the tax allowance rises. My employer can't afford to increase my hours and I am paid the same hourly rate (give or take a few pence) that I was when I started the job 10 years ago but my working hours are less as there have been major cut backs. I earn over the living wage but only just so won't benefit from the increase. I will lose over £1500 a year when the tax credits cuts come in.

Jeremy Hunt is being so offensive and downright unpleasant.

OP posts:

wasonthelist · 09/10/2015 10:21

Actually maybebabybee I think it's weirder than that, it's not just self interested folk (I could sort of understand that), it's people who being actively shat on by Tory policies but who are too thick to realise (or are some form of masochistic forelock-tugging peasants) and keep saying "shit on us some more, it's good for us, we're scum".

Iamnotloobrushphobic · 09/10/2015 10:45

Tax credits have encouraged low wages.

Low wages were a problem long before tax credits were introduced.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 10:53

I agree that it should have been the cuts should have been in the manifesto. Of course I would sympathise with people in difficult circumstances as I would a friend. And your Mum's situation is difficult. But I just don't think it's my responsiblity to pay taxes to fund tax credits in these circumstances. It is difficult. I know somebody having to move to another part of the country because they could no longer afford to live in the house they lived in. London prices go up and up and up. It's got to stop somewhere.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 10:57

But I just don't think it's my responsiblity to pay taxes to fund tax credits in these circumstances.

I do. My OH is a high earner and I think it's absolutely his responsibility to pay more tax in order to help those out in difficult circumstances. I'm not a high earner but an average one and I also don't resent the taxes I pay. One day we could need that support from the government.

I would rather pay a decent amount of tax to ensure that those who needed it were helped out, than get my knickers in a twist about the minority who screw the system. I would rather those system-screwers exist than that we didn't help those who needed it.

If you have the attitude that you don't give a shit that other people are struggling to get by, then I'm sorry but I think you're disgusting. There's no excuse for it. None. Not 'I work hard so why should I have to fund other people', not anything.

Society is everyone's responsibility.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 11:02

That's fine if you think it's your responsiblity to fund people to live in expensive areas and you must cast your vote accordingly. The chances are if you ever do need benefit you probably won't qualify for some reason or another. This myth that benefit is there to help people in hard times often proves to be false.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 11:03

This myth that benefit is there to help people in hard times often proves to be false.

Yes quite, because the government has made it that way.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 11:04

Also what do you mean 'funding people to live in expensive areas'? My mother can only work in London. She has a job that is literally only available in London. I can't say what it is as it is so unique it would out her and me completely. She is untrained for anything else. She has to live here.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 11:09

Then that's a shame. But tough decisions often have to be made. An income of £34K is a lot to many people. If it isn't enough to live on in London that's not the responsiblity of some person in Liverpool to worry about. It just isn't.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 11:17

in my mum's case, the touch decision she would need to make would be to uproot my siblings from their schools - one of who is in the middle of GCSE's, and the other who is in the middle of A levels, sell our family home, move somewhere cheaper and then have to be on benefits as she would be able to find no other job.

Income is relative to where you live. Everyone should be paying the taxes they can afford to pay. Irrespective of where they are.

Iamnotloobrushphobic · 09/10/2015 11:19

What about somebody who is living in Liverpool and is a full time carer to a child with a severe disability, has another child and a husband in full time employment earning £23k? The carer can't take on any paid work due to the caring responsibility (which saves the govt hundreds of thousands each year in residential care fees). That family might be set to lose £50-£60 per week due to the tax credit cuts and have no way of recouping any of the money. They might have taken out their mortgage before having a disabled child, when they both worked full time.
Do you think it is fair to cut the tax credits of people like these?

The fact is a lot of people rely on tax credits to meet basic living costs. Not everyone on tax credits are earning minimum wage and neither are they all working part time to maximise benefit income. There are lots of genuine, hardworking families who will be left in poverty due to these cuts.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 12:01

No I don't support tax credit cuts for people with a disabled child. But I do support tax credit cuts in a lot of cases such as enabling people to choose to work part-time and for people on quite high wages who can't afford to live in expensive areas. Why did the Tories get in when nobody voted for them. I also support caps on Housing benefit. The point is people are in glee about the huge rise in the value of of their houses in London and yet say they can't afford to live there without government subsidies.

blondiejess1982 · 09/10/2015 12:08

Maybe they should pay TC to those who work part time AND full time. That would be fair and interesting to see if people stuck with the same hours.

blondiejess1982 · 09/10/2015 12:19

Opening a can of worms here...but...
My OH ex wife gets to work part time, tax credits etc and maintenance off My OH plus she has a new partner who contributes financially. They can afford to do lots of nice holidays, nice clothes etc where as we are having a baby next year and are not entitled to tax credits because we earn too much (but so much of his goes on maintenance). We will both have to work full time to afford to rent and child care etc. I actually want to work as I like my career, but it would be nice to have a choice.

Babyroobs · 09/10/2015 12:30

Blondiejess - Most of the lone parents I know get a lot in maintainence and tax credits and have foreign holidays most years, but I keep being told on these threads that there are far more lne parents that don't get anything from their exs. I think there needs to be a much better system in place to target the tax creidts at lone parents who realy need them as they get no financial support elsewhere.

wasonthelist · 09/10/2015 12:38

Why did the Tories get in when nobody voted for them
Lots of people voted for them. Lots more people (of those who voted) didn't vote Tory. Lots of people didn't vote.
So a minority of people who bothered to vote, voted Tory, and a minority of people who could vote, voted Tory.
To be scrupulously fair, this applies to pretty much any post-war government.

wasonthelist · 09/10/2015 12:41

Wtf? Ok, no tax credits on any year you go on foreign holiday - what about UK holidays that cost as much or more? I cannot believe the sneering envy and resentment that keeps appearing here.

HopefulAnxiety · 09/10/2015 14:04

Vivienne but £34k doesn't go far in much of the South East/Thames Valley etc. It's expensive and inaccessible for many low-paid workers in these areas to move to a cheaper area, and might not be possible due to dependents etc. I live on the Hampshire/Berkshire border, it's extremely expensive but people are still paid low wages. Should there be no low-paid workers in this area?

blondie actually many FT workers do get TC, most people getting TC who don't have children will be working full-time because you have to work 30 hours or more to claim them. Lots of single people are left in poverty because they are already not entitled to TC.

NewLife4Me · 09/10/2015 14:12

blondle

I don't see your problem, you want to work and pay childcare that is your choice.
Of course your oh money should support his existing family. If you didn't work and your dh cut down hours and didn't pay as much maintenance, there's another choice. Albeit not one that would be admirable, but still a choice.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 14:20

I don't call £34K a year a low wage. The fact that the cost of housing is so high in the South is partly the fault of top up benefits. And the more benefits that are given out the higher the costs will be. If somebody is getting £12K a year then yes I support tax credits. £34K a year then no I wouldn't generally support that person getting tax credits.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 14:26

vivienne you're not listening. it is a relatively low wage in some parts of the country. are you suggesting that therefore everyone should move to cheaper areas?

it's not just house prices. it's the cost of living generally in the south east.

NewLife4Me · 09/10/2015 14:28

I don't think 34k is a low wage tbh its a huge lot more than our family income, but we live in NW so can manage on a lot less.
I disagree with those who say that tax credits won't bother the poor as much or they won't lose much, they will.
I don't work personally so in our case i don't mind losing the tc as we won't lose anything personally. We use them to pay dd school fees now the gov will just have to pay more for us as our income will go down.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 14:30

Yes but it is a relatively low wage in London.

Why do people outside the south east find this concept so massively difficult to understand? I get it all the time from my relatives in the south west "OMG can't believe you earn so much money, can't believe you waste all that money on rent living in London....you could get a 3 bedroom house round here for that". Um yes, but I'd also earn about a quarter of what I earned in London there.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 14:31

I am listening. £34K is not a low wage. You're the one who isn't listening. If you think it's a low wage then it's up to you. I don't.

Viviennemary · 09/10/2015 14:37

So you admit yourself you choose to live in London because you earn more and pay higher rent. I absolutely fail to see why that choice should be subsidised by top up benefits.

maybebabybee · 09/10/2015 14:58

So you admit yourself you choose to live in London because you earn more and pay higher rent. I absolutely fail to see why that choice should be subsidised by top up benefits.

I. Cannot. Get. A. Job. Outside. London.

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